Preludes'R'Us

I know a lot of people ask this question, but......... lets see, the jdm H22 has 202hp and 153lbs torque, the jdm ITR has 210hp and 134lbs torque. Is the 8hp loss for the 20lbs of torque on the H22 vs the ITR worth it? Doesn't the H22 have more potential? The big problem with the h22 is the weight but you can fix that with a coilover kit. Although you could get the h22 type-s engine with 220hp and 153lbs torque still for less than the ITR. Post your opinion, cause I'm starting this project soon, i got all my money saved up. Can't WAIT till summer hits.

Thanks

Preludes'R'Us

Nobody has any good advice?

90gs

that torque gain will be more than noticeable.

Personally i wouldnt consider an ITR engine, you could get a GSR engine and swap in some agressive cams and you'd be close to the horsepower and still have a lot of money over...

theres a local shop that swaps GS-R engines (full changeover... engine/tranny/axles/etc) for parts and labor @ $3000. ITR engines are usually about $5000 online, thats before shipping, before professional installation.

komat

search ....

Preludes'R'Us

Yeah that sounds like a good idea, what do you think about the Sir-2 engine. They only go for about 900$ plus shipping for the engine alone on http://www.hmotorsonline.com. but the 113lbs of torque is rediculous. I will be takin out the back seats, spare tires, get light wieght rims, and so on. So the torque may not be a huge issue. The best thing about the H22 compared to the GSR is the Deeper sound. I love the sound of the H22s.

B18C5-EH2

You don't know it, but this topic stirs up a shitstorm every time we see it.

Let me give you some helpful links, then maybe you can make an informed decision:

N/A theory - B18C5 vs. H22A - more power potential when going N/A:

H22A general info:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=626892

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=362984

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=650329

My B18C5 hatch vs. a identically prepped H22A hatch at the strip:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=299116

My B18C5 dyno chart:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=419533

This is a hotly contested topic. I think the bottom line would come to this:

Do you want the best possible swap that uses factory mounts and factory mounting locations with all factory pieces and not one single aftermarket part is needed?

B18C5

Do you want more torque at the cost of having to run aftermarket mount kits, custom axles, run shifter cables and cut your chassis to fit them?

H22A

B18C5-EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90gs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Personally i wouldnt consider an ITR engine, you could get a GSR engine and swap in some agressive cams and you'd be close to the horsepower and still have a lot of money over...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Holy **** don't even get me started on that point. An ITR swap is SOOOOOOOO much more than just cams over a GS-R swap.

If you care for me to list the differences I can.

I had a B18C1 swap and sold it to upgrade to my B18C5 swap - they are not even close.

The GS-R had i/h/e and baselined at 150whp, 122ft-lbs. of torque.

The Type R had just an i/e and a rechipped P28 ECU and it baselined at 175whp with 123ft/lbs. of torque.

If you can get 25whp from cams then I'll have you do my car too!



The B18C5 I have dynos now at 176whp withg 130ft-lbs. of torque, but peak numbers don't tell the whole story.

SOHC4life 96

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90gs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Personally i wouldnt consider an ITR engine, you could get a GSR engine and swap in some agressive cams and you'd be close to the horsepower and still have a lot of money over...</TD></TR></TABLE>

What proof do you have? Have you ridden in a car with a GSR with cams and a car with an ITR swap? I doubt it. I think Tom sumed it up pretty well for you though.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The B18C5 I have dynos now at 176whp withg 130ft-lbs. of torque, but peak numbers don't tell the whole story.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, your graph is nothing short of amazing.

92orangeeg

if you knew alot of people asked it then why did u ask it again

90gs

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC4life 96 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What proof do you have? Have you ridden in a car with a GSR with cams and a car with an ITR swap? I doubt it. I think Tom sumed it up pretty well for you though.

Yeah, your graph is nothing short of amazing. </TD></TR></TABLE>

that isnt the point. agressive cams and some other boltons will get you equivalent horsepower and leave you with money to spare. you arent going to tell me that you couldnt make a gs-r engine just as fast for TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS. THAT was my point.

BauleyCivic

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=878010

B18C5-EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90gs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

that isnt the point. agressive cams and some other boltons will get you equivalent horsepower and leave you with money to spare. you arent going to tell me that you couldnt make a gs-r engine just as fast for TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS. THAT was my point.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You still have no point.

Let's compare the numbers, shall we?

GS-R swap - $3,000.00 or so (low end)
Type R swap - $4,500.00 or so (low end)

So for $1,500.00 how are you going to make the GS-R FASTER, not just out dyno the Type R swap?

Cams:

At least $600.00

Cam gears:

At least $180.00 or so

So yippy you've now got cams. Are you keeping the GS-R intake manifold now that you've got cams intended for use with a Type R manifold?

New manifold:

At least $200.00

So I'm up to $980.00 while quoting the lowest prices I can think of, so now you've got cams, and intake manifold, but you've still got the ECU that is intended for the dual butterfly intake manifold with it's super low 4500rpm VTEC crossover.

What will you need? A V-AFC or rechipped P28!

Add another $150.00 for a rechipped P28, or better about $250.00 for a V-AFC.

Now you need to dial those cams in, so guess what you'll need?

Dyno time! $150.00 an hour for tuning!

Yay!

So you're like at $1,300.00 or so just for cams and tuning, and I'm not even including labor. I assume you can do that.

So you've got a whopping $200.00 or so to make the GS-R faster.

The Type R still has:

Better geared, LSD tranny
Lighter flywheel
Better valvetrain
Higher compression, moly coated skirted pistons
Better flowing cylinder head
Slightly underdriven crank pulley

There's more, but you get my point now, don't you?

90gs

the $3000 figure i stated was for parts AND labor, the $5000 figure i stated was JUST for parts.

my friend just went to a local performance shop and had them install a GS-R engine for $3000 (INCLUDING labor).

most of the ITR engines i've seen are $5000 JUST FOR THE ENGINE, and you can figure another $1000 for professional installation.

RaYnE

w00t tom..
close the thread its over man..

------------------------------------------------
The Type R still has:

Better geared, LSD tranny
Lighter flywheel
Better valvetrain
Higher compression, moly coated skirted pistons
Better flowing cylinder head
Slightly underdriven crank pulley
--------------------------------------------------

that says it all..

BlownVR

I had h22 in my hatchback. very nice and the torque is awesome. but the itr is a very strong motor and you can take it to higher rpm levels than an h series can stock. but if your looking for mainly drag racing it then h22 is the way to go. but if you want drag racing and road racing then the c5 is your best bet. im a little biased too just because i had a h22 hatch. I did a 13.3@101.2 with h22, i/e/h

B18C5-EH2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90gs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the $3000 figure i stated was for parts AND labor, the $5000 figure i stated was JUST for parts.

my friend just went to a local performance shop and had them install a GS-R engine for $3000 (INCLUDING labor).

most of the ITR engines I've seen are $5000 JUST FOR THE ENGINE, and you can figure another $1000 for professional installation.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dude just STFU already.

What if I told you I have about $2,500 given for my B18C5 swap back when I bought it, and it was 100% legit? See I purchased a complete totalled ITR for $4,000.00 from a friend who had owned the car before he got rear-ended, he bought it back from insurance, sold it to me, then I kept the swap and sold the shell and had maybe $2,500.00 in the swap.

Does that mean all ITR swaps are that cheap?

No.

Same thing on your pal's "$3,000.00 parts and labor" GS-R swap. so you're telling me that labor is $1,000.00 for the Type R swap, so it should be the same for a GS-R swap, which means your pal got a GS-R swap for $2,000.00? That's not a normal occurance.

I am comparing REAL prices from the likes of H motors Online and whatnot, not some best-case GS-R swap against the most expensive, worst-case Type R swap.

Don't insult my intelligence and everyone else's here with your lame argument.