turtlegrip

I have a 2000 CTR B16B from HMO all stock motor (walbro 255 fuel pump, k&n air filter, custom exhaust with apexi ws2 muffler) in a 1997 civic dx frame (98-00 interior).

The build up:
a few days ago (lets call it day 1) i was driving around in the canyons for a good 3-4 hours, a couple times i red lined my engine which has never been a problem before, then made my way home. On the way home my friend blew his h22 because he decided to drive with no oil. So the next day (day 2) this certain friend asks me to take a look at his h22, i go over to his place, 10 miles away, and get let into his parking garage area, he "feel asleep" and i got stuck in his garage area for an hour, trolling back and forth between the 2 gates hoping someone will come in or out. I essentially idled my engine for an hour... Then on the morning of day 3 i jumped on the freeway to go get exhaust work done....

The problem:
I have made it about 5 miles on the freeway and my car starts to jerk a little bit then stops. Then it starts to jerk worse and worse, it feels like it is running limp or with a misfire. So I pull over onto the streets to take a look, everything seems to be fine and the tugging stopped while idled, then it suddenly dies while im looking at the engine bay! I turn it over and it barely starts and im trying to figure out what is wrong. I got home and put a new coil in the dizzy and it doesnt help so i put the old one back in and go to turn the car over, nothing. The car wont start now, just a single loud thud or click, but ive had this problem before from a bad ground, so right away i replace all my power cables and battery/vc and tranny grounds with 1 gauge quality wire. Now the car cranks strong but still wont start, check a few things, no spark now so i replace the entire dizzy. Then before trying to start again i check cam timing, all good but cylinder 3 is totally flooded with gas, so i let it dry out for a while. Go to start car and it barely starts and i have to hold down the gas pedal for that and then it runs like crap and dies if i dont give it gas. I am now upset. Called a couple people and looked online...

What i tried:
~I checked the dizzy/wires/plugs and i am getting nice white spark on all 4 plugs.
~I looked at the spark plugs and cylinders 1, 2, 4 are all black while cylinder 3 is clean and new.
~stethoscope on the fuel injectors, pretty sure i heard clicking.
~took fuel rail off and cranked, injectors 2 and 3 popped off rail gas poured out.
~checked fuses 12, 13, 15, 24, 31 and back up fuse in engine bay. all fine.
~fuel pump primes but also exessive white smoke and fuel smell when idling car, note that there is some seafoam in the fuel tank :angry: .
~cam timing looks perfect, as does ignition timing (checked with light).
~car will not idle unless i take out MAP sensor then it has a rough idle with heavy fuel smell. white smoke from tail pipe (see previous point).
~no CEL until i unplug map and then do jumper pin, only CEL then is #3 (map sensor?)

**maybe i should mention that even with the ECU fuse out the car runs exactly the same?

The car does not feel drivable even though i could take it around the block without more problems. Rough idle (none with map sensor in), drives like there are misfires, sounds like there is no exhaust (there is), lots of white smoke from tail pipe, no CEL.


Ive been at this car for 2 days trying to get my only transportation running again. Right now I am considering a few things for which I already have the parts, such as:
~changing main relay (i have another 97 civic i can take relay off to test)
~using stock fuel pump (i still have it, using walbro 255 right now)

Outside of that, maybe its a bad MAP sensor or TPS?
Any input would be extremely helpful! I am ready and willing to learn something here... Its driving me insane!

turtlegrip

~Okay so today I put in the stock fuel pump, even though im pretty sure the walbro was fine (the stock one makes an annoying whine when priming).
~I did a valve adjustment, they were all a little tight, nothing crazy though...
~I changed the oil, with the seafoam and a recent quart of oil dropped in, I had wayy too much oil in there (about 4.7 quarts...) Does too much oil cause serious issues?
~I changed out the MAP sensor and main relay from another civic (although that one doesnt run too good either -_-).
~Tried new spark plugs. Results below...

So the valves were a little tight, nothing that surprised me although i did adjust them only 3k miles ago and they usually loosen up between adjustments, rather than getting tighter like they did this time.
While doing this i checked timing over and over, many (counter-clockwise) turns of the crank. Take a look at this photo, is it just me or does the crank look about a mm off on TDC when the cams are aligned? Should I worry about this? I know its hard to look at it in a photo:




The too much oil really scares me. Im usually so good about that and I could have sworn it was really low but i guess it wasnt as low as i thought when i added another quart...

Changed the map and main relay just because (i have the other civic sitting in the drive way but has a crack in the block which i found out after i rebuilt its head... this is a whole other story so i wont get started...) and the engine runs better, starts up easy and idles fine now.

Although the start up and idle are better there is clearly a misfire now. This is where i really need some help... I tried 2 sets of spark plugs and spark plug wires with the same results in any set up. Cylinder #2 [[ref: dizzy 4 3 2 1 cam gears]] has a wet spark plug each time i run it for a minute and check the plugs, its covered in gasoline each time. Cylinder #2 is not firing, but has spark...



So tomorrow I guess I will be doing a compression/leak down test. I want to think bent valve for some reason but I have no hard evidence to make me think that. Will post leak down/compression results if I can get it done tomorrow. How bad would it be to drive the car like this (at low speed/low rpm) just to get these tests done?

**All the injectors are getting voltage when the key is ON and the fuel pressure is fine. Double checked this morning. No change.

Here is a video of the car running, dont know if it will help any...
Photobucket Video

B_Swapped93

can you try another ECU ? was going to suggest comp test also. was a lot to read but why did you let the car idle for an entire hour ? did you say the car blows white smoke ? is it eating up coolant ? my .02 is that the HG may be on it's way out but that would not cause some of the other thing you are saying.

turtlegrip

It was dumb i kept assuming a car was about to come around the corner so I could get out of the gate (need a clicker) and i did not want to be stuck in there anymore... Didnt wanna miss them starting the car.

I was thinking of going to HMO and asking very nicely if I could try another ecu and buy it if it fixes the problem. There is a bit of white smoke at idle nothing insane, you can see it at the end of the video I posted in the last post. If it was a mild HG i wouldnt mind changing that out but every time i have a HG problem there ends up being a crack in the block or some thing -_-

Reckone

Honestly it sounds like your distributor is crapping out on you. Try swapping coils, or another distributor in. My car had a bad misfire when over 3k rpm and cleared out and idled fine anything under that. I swapped out the dizzy for a spare, all good since then.

brent_si

I agree on the distributor. That is exactly what my b16 did when it failed.

teamXteg

"suddenly dies while im looking at the engine bay! I turn it over and it barely starts and im trying to figure out what is wrong. I got home and put a new coil in the dizzy and it doesnt help so i put the old one back in and go to turn the car over, nothing. The car wont start now, just a single loud thud or click, but ive had this problem before from a bad ground, so right away i replace all my power cables and battery/vc and tranny grounds with 1 gauge quality wire. Now the car cranks strong but still wont start, check a few things, no spark now so i replace the entire dizzy."


he has already changed the coil in the dizzy and changed the dizzy completly

turtlegrip

It is a brand new distributor and I am starting to wonder if there was ever anything really wrong with my original one...

Today the problem got weirder. I went to go get a leak down test at a local pep boys (no air compressor) and as I started driving there it was driving just fine, a little boggy and some white smoke but not bad, then after about half a mile it got really bad like before (where I was going was only a mile away) but for the second half of the mile there was not much white smoke even though it ran crappy.

The pep boys did not have a leak down test, weird. So before I drive away i notice when I turn the key I actually have a CEL now! -_-

3 short: Manifold Absolute Pressure
I should probably check for vacuum leaks. maybe just buy a new MAP sensor.

2 long: Electric load detector
I also noticed that my fuel gauge and speedometer are not working anymore, my tach is a little jumpy but works and coolant appears to work, my oil pressure and voltage work fine except that voltage is jumping all over the place.

4 long 1 short: Heated oxygen sensor heater
Could this be because i have been running with a rich misfire?


The entire electrical system seems stressed now, I do have a somewhat extensive (~2000w) stereo system on the stock B16B alternator, I think I blew teh alternator... But get this, while driving back from the pep boys, i kinda floored it giving it gas and the problem essentially went away while doing that. The car picked up and drove well, a little louder than usual but hardly, and the voltage steadied at ~13.5v with no white smoke or jerking BUT the speedo and fuel meter still did not work. When I let up on the gas (stop sign) the problem came back, in the day light i could see the lights in the dash dimming and getting brighter and could here the fuel pump starting to pulse in struggling with the lights. The only change I made recently was the new grounds and REMOVING a capacitor from my set up, until i can fix all this.

Did I fry my alternators low output mode? Should I start inspecting my wire harness? Still need to do leak down test, Ill borrow a compressor soon.

turtlegrip

So this morning I changed out the under hood fuse box from another 97 civic and then I remembered that the battery (located in the trunk) still had two 4 gauge grounds (I was out of 1/0 when I did it -_- ) so I also replaced that with the new 1/0 gauge I bought for the car. I dont know what it was but one of those got the car back to completely normal. The speedometer stopped working but I just replaced fuse 15 and the problem was fixed, hopefully that does not come back. Im not sure if my fuel gauge works yet cause I and probably actually empty, haha.

I guess I can blame all these problems to cheap wires that went bad? I should not have cheaped out on something like that in retrospect... They were so corroded, I just hope it is not a short somewhere else that I missed and it causes the same problems... There is still white smoke from the tail pipe but I think that might just be the seafoam in the tank, I will need to fill up to find out (dilute whats left) because I know my cylinders are dirty so it might just be burning that off still...

Tomorrow I will start putting the old parts back in, the walbro fuel pump will go back in, then the map, then main relay; One at a time so I can find out what was the actual problem the whole time. I am scared to try the old dizzy and find out I wasted 250 on a new one... I will do one more post to let anyone that cares know exactly what were the faulty parts tomorrow.

teamXteg

hope you figure it out man.. i know all the damn electrical problems can be a pain in the ***! i have had a couple on my 4dr i just picked up. i have been paying attention hoping you figure something out. may be a dumb question but is there a chance either the map sensor or tps is bad? possibly the connectors are switched?

turtlegrip

The MAP sensor was actually bad, have not retested the original fuse box or dizzy yet.

I can recreate the problem by trying to accelerate while making a sharp left turn at 30kph or greater. This is the only time I can make the problem come back (it is still only sometimes but only in sharp left turns). I am guessing this had to be loose wiring, I started looking up and down the wire harness, I guess eventually I will have to check all the wires individually. Could be a wire in the dash too, I guess, so I will look into that as well...

UPDATE::
Fuse box was fine, also since I put back original fuse box there have been no problems in turns or anything of that nature. Dizzy was bad, So the end result was bad power/ground cables which caused problems with the dizzy, map sensor and fuse 15.