consequences of a Bad ISB - Honda-Tech - Honda Forum Discussion


Honda Civic (2001 - 2005) Coupe / Sedan / Hybrid (Includes Acura EL)

consequences of a Bad ISB

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-06-2009, 02:12 PM   #1
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
GriFFIthS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mt. Pearl, NL, Canada
Posts: 328
Default consequences of a Bad ISB

So my ISB(input Shaft Bearing) has been making noise since i bought the car in August on 07, i have no idea how long it was before i bought it but it has not got any louder, i had first thought it was the throw-out/release bearing but not the case, anyway i dont really wanna replace it if it doesnt really need to be as i really dont wannt have the tran apart or pay the $1000 cost to the dealer to fix it.

Anyway i'm just wondering, whats the consequences on leaving it as it is, it it does get louder/worse then yes i will replace it, but if it doesnt what could happen?

This seems to be a very common problem with these hondas from what i can gaver, i tried searching here for topics on this but the search doesnt seem to be working right now, it wont give me any results for anything i search. only says "Improve your search results: Click here for Search Commands, Tips & Tricks.
InternetBrands.com ibSearch Discussion Forum Search Engine"

anyway thoughts or comments anyone?
GriFFIthS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 02:34 PM   #2
Honda-Tech Member
 
EvDog03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: foothill ranch, ca, us
Posts: 131
Default Re: consequences of a Bad ISB

Look at the thread titled 2001 dx, gear oil. I think I have the same problem, and its explained there.
EvDog03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 03:40 PM   #3
be professional
 
Targa250R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 14,842
Default Re: consequences of a Bad ISB

Quote:
Originally Posted by GriFFIthS View Post
Anyway i'm just wondering, whats the consequences on leaving it as it is, it it does get louder/worse then yes i will replace it, but if it doesnt what could happen?
If the bearing fails, it will score the mainshaft and gouge the transmission case, essentially rendering the transmission junk. The car will be undriveable; you won't be able to shift gears and the clutch will be soaked in oil because the main seal will sustain damage from the bearing and shaft. At that point, you're looking at sourcing a used transmission and a new clutch disc, all because you procrastinated replacing a $25 bearing and a $7 seal.

If you're mechanically handy and have tools, you can do it yourself. I would highly recommend buying a Helm factory service manual here to check torque specs and reassembly order. The entire procedure is outlined in detail with diagrams. If it's been a while since you had the clutch replaced, check the wear on the disc and replace parts as necessary while you have the transmission off.

The bearing part number is 91002-PS0-003 and the main seal behind it is 91216-PL3-005.
Targa250R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 04:14 PM   #4
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
GriFFIthS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mt. Pearl, NL, Canada
Posts: 328
Default Re: consequences of a Bad ISB

thats exactly what i wanted to know.
thanks for the input, i have a new clutch and bearings going in on the 17th and my plan to to pry that case apart while the tranny is out and have it replaced, nothing bugs me more than knowing theres something wrong with my car, i had first thought it was the throw-out/release bearing but i was wrong, knowing now that the ISB is bad and what could happen i almost dont wanna drive the car untill its fixed.
GriFFIthS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2009, 09:48 PM   #5
Honda-Tech Member
 
portaman03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: branford, ct, usa
Posts: 830
Default Re: consequences of a Bad ISB

How do you tell if it's bad? When I press my clutch to the point of pressure, I can tell something is wrong because it makes a "whirring" noise like a soft hum. The noise fluctuates as the clutch is further depressed and is almost like the noise of a buzzing doorbell when you tap the clutch a few inches down..
portaman03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 04:23 AM   #6
be professional
 
Targa250R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 14,842
Default Re: consequences of a Bad ISB

Quote:
Originally Posted by portaman03 View Post
How do you tell if it's bad? When I press my clutch to the point of pressure, I can tell something is wrong because it makes a "whirring" noise like a soft hum. The noise fluctuates as the clutch is further depressed and is almost like the noise of a buzzing doorbell when you tap the clutch a few inches down..
If you're only getting noise when you push the pedal in, the problem is likely a bad release bearing or pilot bearing.
Targa250R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 02:59 PM   #7
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: DANBURY, CT, UNITED STATS
Posts: 662
Default Re: consequences of a Bad ISB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targa250R View Post
If the bearing fails, it will score the mainshaft and gouge the transmission case, essentially rendering the transmission junk. The car will be undriveable; you won't be able to shift gears and the clutch will be soaked in oil because the main seal will sustain damage from the bearing and shaft. At that point, you're looking at sourcing a used transmission and a new clutch disc, all because you procrastinated replacing a $25 bearing and a $7 seal.

If you're mechanically handy and have tools, you can do it yourself. I would highly recommend buying a Helm factory service manual here to check torque specs and reassembly order. The entire procedure is outlined in detail with diagrams. If it's been a while since you had the clutch replaced, check the wear on the disc and replace parts as necessary while you have the transmission off.

The bearing part number is 91002-PS0-003 and the main seal behind it is 91216-PL3-005.
x2 i have repalce quite a few at work. i work for a honda dealer. its not to bad to replace as long as you are handy with tools and have the proper tools to do the job. i would rec. using a lift it would be much easier to remove the subframe and trans.

good luck
HONDAPARTSMANMIKE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 05:51 PM   #8
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
GriFFIthS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mt. Pearl, NL, Canada
Posts: 328
Default Re: consequences of a Bad ISB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targa250R View Post
If you're only getting noise when you push the pedal in, the problem is likely a bad release bearing or pilot bearing.

Please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong, but the pilot bearing spins with the fly wheel which is spinning at all times the engine is running, so have the clutch pedal in or out should make a difference correct?
GriFFIthS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 06:52 PM   #9
be professional
 
Targa250R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 14,842
Default Re: consequences of a Bad ISB

Quote:
Originally Posted by GriFFIthS View Post
Please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong, but the pilot bearing spins with the fly wheel which is spinning at all times the engine is running, so have the clutch pedal in or out should make a difference correct?
The pilot bearing only comes into play whenever the transmission mainshaft and the flywheel/engine have a difference in rotational speed. In other words, it will only spin when the engine and trans are disconnected by pushing the clutch pedal in.
Targa250R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 01:00 PM   #10
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
GriFFIthS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mt. Pearl, NL, Canada
Posts: 328
Default Re: consequences of a Bad ISB

ahh ok gotcha

thanks for clearing that up, i wasnt 100% sure.
GriFFIthS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 09:41 AM   #11
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 566
Default Re: consequences of a Bad ISB

I spent $2k on having the tranny rebuilt with a new clutch and flywheel. Had bad syncros, and other bad gears.

It will just get worse over time till you leave your tranny behind or just cant stay in any gear
Whatislove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 12:05 PM   #12
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
GriFFIthS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mt. Pearl, NL, Canada
Posts: 328
Default Re: consequences of a Bad ISB

now i'm confused, i was at my buddies last night down in his garage, hes a parts manager at Honda, 2 of Honda's Mechanics were there also, anyway i brought my car in and they were going over it, the sound that i was sure was the Throw out bearing and later found out on here it could be the ISB, they say its is 100% definitly the throw out bearing and not the ISB as the ISB will still make some slight noise once the clutch is in, and the throw out will go silent when the clutch pedal is pushed in.
these guys have been working as mechanics at the local Honda dealer here for 8 and 14 years respectivitly.
Either way when my clutch goes in next weekend i'm gonna have the ISB checked just to be sure.
GriFFIthS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2009, 05:47 PM   #13
be professional
 
Targa250R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 14,842
Default Re: consequences of a Bad ISB

Quote:
Originally Posted by GriFFIthS View Post
they say its is 100% definitly the throw out bearing and not the ISB as the ISB will still make some slight noise once the clutch is in, and the throw out will go silent when the clutch pedal is pushed in.
these guys have been working as mechanics at the local Honda dealer here for 8 and 14 years respectivitly.
I'm sorry, but that is totally wrong. I don't care who they are; if they told you the mainshaft bearings will still make noise with the clutch pedal pushed all the way to the floor and the car sitting completely still, then they have no mechanical knowledge of how a clutch and transmission work. How are the bearings going to make noise if the shaft isn't moving?

And the release bearing doesn't start spinning until it contacts the fingers of the pressure plate as you're pushing the pedal in, so how would it go silent?
Targa250R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2009, 11:32 AM   #14
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
GriFFIthS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mt. Pearl, NL, Canada
Posts: 328
Default Re: consequences of a Bad ISB

thats why i'm confused, I'm gonna take the tranny apart anyway just tp have a look just to be sure.
GriFFIthS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2009, 11:56 AM   #15
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: ROLL TIDE, USA
Posts: 765
Default Re: consequences of a Bad ISB

Throwout bearing = makes noise when clutch is disengaged (clutch pedal depressed/to the floor) Input shaft bearing or other clutch parts = make noise when clutch is engaged (clutch pedal released/in the air)
1grex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2009, 12:29 PM   #16
be professional
 
Targa250R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 14,842
Default Re: consequences of a Bad ISB

Quote:
Originally Posted by GriFFIthS View Post
thats why i'm confused, I'm gonna take the tranny apart anyway just tp have a look just to be sure.
They're probably thinking of the pilot bearing. This leads me to believe that they've never done a mainshaft bearing replacement, which is rather amazing for a 10+ year Honda technician.
Targa250R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2009, 03:39 PM   #17
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
GriFFIthS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mt. Pearl, NL, Canada
Posts: 328
Default Re: consequences of a Bad ISB

Do you know what Parts i will need to properly replace this bearing? will i only need to replace the ISB, or is there any seals or other bearings that need to be replaced with this?

and might be a long shot but you wouldnt happen to know their part numbers would you?
GriFFIthS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2009, 04:02 PM   #18
be professional
 
Targa250R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 14,842
Default Re: consequences of a Bad ISB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targa250R View Post
The bearing part number is 91002-PS0-003 and the main seal behind it is 91216-PL3-005.
Order both of those. I always replace the main seal with the bearing just in case I damage the seal on removal.

You should get a tube of Hondabond or Honda Ultra Flange Sealant to seal up the trans case and shift cover plate too. Don't forget 2-3 quarts of Honda MTF when you're picking up parts.

You probably won't need any other internal bearings unless you're getting other noises, or unless you disassemble the case and find other bearings with play/roughness/noise. Pay special attention to the outboard mainshaft bearing and the differential carrier bearings.

For clutch replacement, you'll need a new clutch disc, pressure plate, release bearing, and pilot bearing (all of these parts plus an alignment tool come in the Exedy KHC08 clutch kit, which I recommend). Have the flywheel resurfaced while it's off to avoid clutch chatter. If the crank main seal appears leaky, replace it while you have the flywheel off.
Targa250R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2009, 05:00 PM   #19
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
GriFFIthS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mt. Pearl, NL, Canada
Posts: 328
Default Re: consequences of a Bad ISB

thanks a million man, you've been a great help.
GriFFIthS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2009, 05:08 PM   #20
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
 
GriFFIthS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mt. Pearl, NL, Canada
Posts: 328
Default Re: consequences of a Bad ISB

so i got all the work done today, my tranny was out, apart, the ISB was indeed bad, However the the throw out bearing was much worse was the the source of 60% of the noise, anyway both are changed, new clutch, new coolant lines(another common problem) andnew exhaust flange.
all of this work was done in 5 hours, really glad to have it all done finally, it was myself and 2 friends (both mechanics).
the car feels like its brand new again.
GriFFIthS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2013, 06:59 PM   #21
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 54
Default Re: consequences of a Bad ISB

I have been searching and searching on this problem as I am experiencing the same in my 97 dx. I'm fixing to order the Exedy KHC08 clutch kit, as I see is recommended, and have the flywheel resurfaced. How much did it cost you in all to do the threout bearing, isb, coolant lines, and exhaust flange? Again, I am for sure having the same problem, after research and reading this thread.
honda-x5-guy is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Will a bad ISB do any harm in the long run? B_Swapped93 Acura Integra 6 05-11-2015 04:57 PM
S4C Noise has me lost! Helpppp! cipher Transmission & Drivetrain 15 12-09-2014 11:16 PM
Countershaft bearing noise? M2U4 gstrudler Transmission & Drivetrain 12 03-24-2014 11:52 PM
Hx ISB problems Weekndwarrior Transmission & Drivetrain 13 12-27-2013 03:13 PM
Bad ISB I believe, just swap instead? vernisog Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000) 1 04-07-2010 09:24 PM


Tags
01, 91002ps0003, 98, bad, civic, crx, determine, doorbell, honda, isb, number, part, replacement, sounds, tranny, transmission

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:15 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: