grpape

07' V6 6spd. w/ 11000 miles on her. I've always noticed a hard time smoothly shifting into third gear. I thought I was just a bit critical, but, my wife notices this also. Do any of you 6spd owners out there have this problem. It feel like the syncros are a bit off. The last quarter inch or so of the shift just doesn't want to engage without a bit of persuasion. Sometimes it just wants to pop back out.

On another forum some were saying that they changed the MTF (Honda made a newer batch). This seems to help the shifting, but not as smooth as the rest of the shifts (first, second, fourth, etc.). If anyone could help me out, I would really appriciate it. Or maybe I'm just need to shift harder.

aloha, Derrick

MSchu

Aloha,

the Honda transmission is characteristically has difficult third gear shifts in nearly every car made for decades. GENERALLY its not really a problem, its a characteristic. It can become a problem if one continues to force the car into gear. At times with the Honda transmission a switch to fresh oil or even a switch to a higher grade MTF can help reduce the issue if it has become a problem.

Uncle Ben's

Yeah, my 05 6 speed has the infamous shitty third gearset. The synchro is perfectly fine. But it pops out of third gear once in a while. One of the things I have started doing which helps to reduce the frequency of this, is, when I shift from second gear, I put the shifter into neutral, wait for the engine to fall to the correct RPM, and then shove it into third gear and keep pressure on the shifter as I let out the clutch. Sometimes, when it would normally pop out as torque is applied to the gear when the clutch is engaging, it actually pops all the way into gear when I do this. But sometimes it grinds and pops out. If you are lucky and bought the car from a dealership that has technicians with good business ethics, you could be able to take the car there and have them recreate the problem while driving, and if they diagnose that it is the third gear problem that many of us have, they will replace it under warranty. This isn't guaranteed though, in fact there is a video on youtube of a Honda dealership in San Diego refusing to acknowledge that the problem exists, therefore not doing any repair I have also seen plenty of 6 speed owners actually get their car correctly diagnosed, with Honda replacing the parts, but the car sits at the dealership for several weeks as they get the parts in. There is a Honda TSB about this, but they haven't recalled the transmissions, even though every single 6 speed transmission produced from 2003-2008 is included At least you have the advantage of being under warranty. For guys like me who bought their Accord two months after the warranty expired, I just have to deal with it and hope to God that their is a class action lawsuit to get our **** fixed.

grpape

Thanks for the responses guys. This is my first MT Honda, so I never knew such a problem exists. My third gear isn't as bad where the shifter will pop out of gear, but it just doesn't engage all the way sometimes. When this happens, I let out the clutch (out of habbit), and the gears grind a tad. If I concienciously make sure the clutch pedal is floored, this doesn't happen so much.

If there is a TSB out there. What does it reccommend being done to fix this problem? I think I'm gonna take the car in, and if anything, have the new MTF put in.

Since I have owned this car. I have had a front strut problem that took seven times for them to diagnose and fix. My rear struts needed to be replaced (after owning the car for a month). The interior leather (front seat and rear) needed to be replaced. The air bag on the passengers side might need to be replaced (air bag cover on the dash keeps pulling up). All of this within 10000 mi. Other than that, however, the car does run like charm.

aloha, Derrick

Uncle Ben's

Jesus Christ, sounds like you have a lemon

I think the TSB recommends replacing the whole third gearset. I would go in there and get a MTF change also, ask for the new blend Honda MTF. At least you'll have that on your service record, and if that doesn't improve your third gear problem, which it likely won't, you can bring the car in and have them diagnose it and you'll have proof that you did change the MTF. Good luck.

BTW what do you mean the leather seats need to be replaced? Are they ripped, or falling apart, or what?

grpape

Yeah, my wife was pretty pissed about the whole situation. After talking to Honda, they gave me their most comprehensive extended plan. There was really nothing else I could so but wait for the problem to keep comming back (to lemon it). It drives fine now (no complaints at all).

The seats tore about an inch or so and kept on tearing over time. They tried to blame it on me, saying that the pants I wore/child seats were the culprit. I packed up all the pants I owned/ flipped over all four child seats, and they agreed that this was a defect on their part. The damn car is only being leased, but the wife likes the way it drives (just her work car). So we're probably gonna buy it out in a couple of years.

nightfawl

I'm so happy I read this thread. I had no idea that this was a common problem. I bought my car about 2 months ago and was doing exactly what you described with 3rd gear and was getting super pissed. I actually brought my car to the Honda dealer I bought it from and asked them to fix it under my warranty and they wouldn't acknowledge it. I even made the mechanic come with me in the car and showed him how it happens and he was saying it was how I drive which is obviously BS. If they know about their own cars they know about this problem. So they have actually lost my future business now...Oh in case anyone reading this is from Toronto, it was Roadsport Honda in Scarborough...Poor service. Maybe I'll try another Honda dealer!

grpape

Take a look on this site: Generation7AccordClub . There is a thread that actually has a TSB for this problem. It states that this is a problem on all 6spd. MTs 2003-2007. Print it out and take it down to the Service Manager. This is what I'm gonna be doing. It's always better to take down a copy of a TSB to show the service manager how to do his job.

aloha, Derrick

cjo_28

That bulletin came out about 4 weeks ago. Before this bulletin, techs would replace the 3rd gear set, but only for severe shift quality issues.

Apparently Honda changed the design a little, so now the techs have a good reason to replace the gear set every time someone complains, even if the tech didn't notice a problem during the test drive. But for the record, I've replaced two gear sets since the bulletin came out; the shift quality was better, but it didn't feel dramatically different.

Uncle Ben's

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cjo_28 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That bulletin came out about 4 weeks ago. different.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No it didn't it came out in the middle of April.

nightfawl

Maybe this is an ignorant question but what is TSB? Do you have the link cause I would love to have something I can bring to a Honda dealer to force their hand a little to do their JOBS!

cjo_28

Oh yeah, that's right. I forgot it was the updated 08-020 that came out in July.

cjo_28

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nightfawl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Maybe this is an ignorant question but what is TSB? Do you have the link cause I would love to have something I can bring to a Honda dealer to force their hand a little to do their JOBS!</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's a service bulletin. And it's not like the techs get a personal phone call when a new one is issued. They have to look them up individually, and for a common complaint like "hard to get into 3rd gear," they probably already looked it up several times, didn't find anything because there wasn't anything and quit bothering looking it up (for that complaint, anyway). They should know by now, though. I was talking about the first time you brought your car in.

It sounds like you might be taking the wrong attitude to the dealer with you. You ever hear that saying, you'll attract more bees with honey than vinegar? They're just a bunch a guys trying to do a job and since American Honda is paying the bills, everything they do under warranty is scrutinized by somebody.

You'd probably be surprised what you can get done if you smile, try to be cool and just talk to the service advisor and/or tech.

grpape

So how much better is it? I only really notice it when I row through the gears shifting fast. When I take my time, it goes into gear, but it just feels notchy compared to the other gears. Is this a simple fix, or do they dig into your tranny pretty good? I just hate to have something like the engine or tranny opened up, unless really neccessary.

Had a Toyota pickup once and got a recall on the head gaskets being faulty. Mine were fine, but I figured get her done before she goes. Wrong! The engine felt like crap after they changed them out. The techs agreed that it was slugish, but could never fix it.

cjo_28

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by grpape &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So how much better is it? I only really notice it when I row through the gears shifting fast. When I take my time, it goes into gear, but it just feels notchy compared to the other gears. Is this a simple fix, or do they dig into your tranny pretty good? I just hate to have something like the engine or tranny opened up, unless really neccessary.
.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The transmission is completely disassembled for the repairs. If you have a green tech doing the work, all I can say is good luck.

Like I said, I've replaced 2 updated 3rd gear sets, and the improvement was minor. But it wasn't like 3rd gear was smoked before I started. It just was hard to get into 3rd gear every once in awhile and it was worse when cold. I think it got a little better after the repairs, but I still felt that notchy shift going into 3rd.

nightfawl

Thanks for the post. I probably made it sound like I was yelling and screaming at the tech's to do the work which wasn't the case. I was trying to be as nice as possible but when they kept on saying its the way I drive the car even after I showed them the problem first hand, that's when I got a little upset with them. Anyways, I can take the car to any Honda dealer.

Do you have a link to the site you mentioned with that posting? I'd love to see it. Thanks again!

vdavenp802

Have an 04 and never had a hint of a problem. It currently has about 36K on the clock and it shifts fine in all gears. Reverse is a bit hard to get into at times, but tha't s it.
Sorry you folks are having difficulties, it dosen't sound like the Honda I know.

MSchu

every Honda I have ever owned( and that has been many or many different generations of release) has always seemed to have this second to third gear issue/characteristic. It always seems to manifest itself during fast or hard shifting and usually can be avoided by being smoother with the technique or waiting for the gears to align properly. I just accept it as part of owning a Honda design... it doesn't stop me from tracking my Honda or driving from a performance oriented stand point.

George Knighton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by grpape &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... a TSB for this problem. It states that this is a problem on all 6spd. MTs 2003-2007. Print it out and take it down to the Service Manager. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm surprised that people are still finding dealer service organisations that do not know about this. It's well documented and has achieved Internet Celebrity status.

The only thing I can think is that Accord six speeds are relatively rare and that there really could be lower volume dealers that simply haven't sold many of them or seen many of them.

The TSB is available in several places online, usually in PDF format. If you have trouble getting it, I can have a Honda representative fax it to your dealer.

Ross 2.0

If you PM me with your email address I can send you the PDF.

George Knighton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by grpape &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I only really notice it when I row through the gears shifting fast. </TD></TR></TABLE>
It sounds like your issue is light enough that it could be solved by a change to a different transmission fluid like the new Honda MTF w/the additives.

There are certainly cases warranting changing out the gearset, but these cases seem rare.

George Knighton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ross 2.0 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you PM me with your email address I can send you the PDF.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks for doing that for people. Less trouble for me. :-)

Ross 2.0

This doesn't replace (and is not) the Service Bulletin but it's been proven true to me many many times.
Sorry for the huge pic. It's hard to read smaller.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/moogocow3/2805233271/