vshavoc

I have a 2000 Honda Accord V6 with stock heighth. I needed to fix a problem with the suspension. It has positive camber on the driver side that is 0.03 and the passenger side has 0.07. It pulls to the right and wears tires out super fast. We took it to Big-O and they said they see it alot in front wheel drive cars and that there really isn't alot of adjustment to make on the camber and it usually means something is bent or worn out. The car has never been in a wreck and we inspected the spindle and control arm and everything looked good. I don't see how the strut is bent so I don't think that is the problem. They said buy adjustable ball joints that adjust from -1.5 to +1.5 and you'll be good to go.
I went the cheap route and bought a set from SuspensionMax out of Anaheim, Ca. I called and asked if their ball joints would be right for me. I explained to them the whole ordeal with the car pulling to the right and they said theirs would correct that camber problem. Their website says it adjusts -1.75 to +3.0 degrees. I only need to bring them in less than -1 degree to correct my positive camber problem. When I pulled them out of the box the directions said for positive camber adjustment only so we thought that's not right but it says it'll adjust from -1.75 to +3.0 so they have to adjust out negative.

My father (ASE certified) and I installed them and pushed them as far back negative as possible. When we got done the car had so much positive camber it was ridiculous. Worse than before and I mean like at least +2 degrees of camber and it was riding solely on the outside of the tire and pulling 10 times worse. I didn't even bother to take it to have it aligned because we couldn't push it anymore negative.

I called SuspensionMax today and get a guy named Jason who tells me that I'm not doing it right and I need to take it to professional. I tried to explain to him exactly what was going on and he said "I'm going to tell you the same thing over and over....Take it to a professional." Basically insulting my intelligence and my fathers' who I guarantee has many many more years experience than this jerk. There is no way you can install these wrong and the guy won't let me send them back or even help me. He said I need to pay to have them installed by a professional ($200 at Big-O) and go from there. There's no way I'm gonna do that just to get told that they aren't adjusting negative enough. He kept telling me I'm wrong and I don't know what I'm doing until I finally blow up and cuss him out. He wouldn't even offer a small refund. He just said they're used now so I can't return them. If this was Kragens and I bought Moog they would take them right back then and there no questions asked. The damn things didn't even have the washers that were supposed to come with them and he says would you like me to send you the washers like a moron. Quality Control problem eh?

My questions are what do you guys think about this situation? What do you guys think about my suspension problem? Has anybody ever had a problem like this before on your accord and what did you do? Any help would be greatly appreciated!





Modified by -RedneckDave- at 10:22 AM 10/30/2008

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

#1) You should have read their store's return policy before purchasing, I've been burned before due to restocking fees and I'm sure this place has some lame *** clause in there protecting them too.

#2) Try to refund it somehow then buy them elsewhere

vshavoc

Yea I did read it but figured it'd work. I think that the part is for +1.75 to +3.0 camber adjustment and the negative is a typo. The guy won't even let me return it for a half refund or anything so I'm just gonna call my credit card company and try to get a charge back for merchandise not matching what was purchased. I did a google search and found several guys who've had similar problems with this company and especially this Jason guy.

Anyways anybody have any explanation or experience with a camber problem similar to mine?

P_Adams

How do these ball joints adjust/ Are they the rotating type or do they slide on a sub bracket?

Give me a link to them and let me take a look

P

vshavoc

They are the type that slide between the washers like the Ingalls brand. Here's the link.

http://shop.suspensionmax.com/...32526

Thanks alot for any help! I just really want to get the problem fixed.

AccordVT

Those look to be the exact same design as ingalls. Rotate the ball-joint mounting plate "slide plate" and ensure it is seated properly and so that it is facing the right way. The plate should be installed so that the ball-joint contact surface is level. Slide the ball-joint all the way in, tighten the locking nut and put your car on the ground. If you still have positive camber then either your control arm bushings are shot, the arm is bent or there is something else worn or bent in your suspension as Big-O told you. Also double check the part number on your kit and make sure it is for your exact car. I had a company send me upper arms for the wrong year and they looked like the right ones. Went through the same "no their the right ones/pay restock fee" crap.

vshavoc

Yea we tried turning the plate and even using the other one before we installed it on the other side. No luck either way. Why do you think it wouldn't make it any better than the stock ones though, even if something else is bent or worn? I'm in the process of trying to get the part number so hopefully they are just the wrong ones.

P_Adams

If you install them as illustrated, you'll most likely run out of adjustmant.
By looking at them, if kept the lower plate but rotated the ball and stud assembly so that the stud was out (rather than in), you would loose any chance of going positive but would have more negative adjustment available.
Unless there's something I'm missing.

P

Turbowa

WOW, I can't believe I'm reading this. You said the car pull's right with 0.07* of camber. Hate to tell you but this won't make the car pull right. Your cross camber is only .04* out. If his was your toe, maybe but not camber. The very first thing that I would have done is rotate the tire's, seeing as how this is free. Rotate them left to right if the car pull's to the left it's a tire problem (even on brand new tires) if it drive's straight They are just slightly cupped. You can also rotate them front to back.

Also keep in mind that the car will follow the crown of the road, witch is always to the right unless you are in the far left lane.

I would also never take it to Big-O for an alignment, take it to the dealer and get a copy of the alignment sheet. You may have screwed up something now.

Take it to a shop that knows what there doing and save your self the money and head ach's in the long run.

accord99power

listen to this guy everyone missed that the tires are the problem.

vshavoc

I have the print out of two alignments and the toe is where is should be. Everything is in the green but it pulls to the right and wears tires out. I've been through three sets of tires, rotated the tires, and took it back for another alignment with the same problems. I too thought it was the new tires so after they wore out I got new falkens and it's the same. The car does pull to the right. It's not like I'm exaggerating it. It's not pulling super hard like it's gonna turn by itself but it doesn't track straight like my other 3 hondas I've owned. You let go of the wheel and it drifts. You have to hold the steering wheel a little to the left to keep it straight. It doesn't make sense and that's why I'm asking for help.

I'm broke or I would have already taken it to the dealer. My father has heart problems and I'm trying to help my mom pay her bills because he is having a difibulator put in next week.

hurleyint

It sounds like something is bent/broken. Have you done any off-roading?

vshavoc

I wish then I'd know I have something bent or broken for sure. I guess I'm gonna have to rough it out for a little longer until I get the cash and take it to Honda. I'm probably just gonna sell my integra to get funds anyways. $30 to have Big-O inspect it and they seen nothing so I guess Honda is the only option to get it fixed right or sell the Accord. I don't know what else to do but I can't keep putting tires on it every 20k miles. My girl and I bought it from the Honda dealer in Reno with about 50k miles on it and it was like that from day one. Just rode the tires on it until they were shot then got some falken 512's and took it to get it aligned because we thought the toe was out. It was and it helped alot but it still pulled right. Rotated tires and took it back and still had the same problem. We were broke so we rode those tires out until 3 weeks ago and got another set of falkens but the new 912's and it still is exactly the same.

P_Adams

You can eliminate the tires as the sourse of your problem with a simple diagnostic proceedure.
Swap the tire from side to side (after marking the original position) on the front.
If there is a problem, the problem will "follow" the bad tire.

If it still pulls in the original direction - it wasn't the tires.
Return the tires to their original positions.

You may have an underlying related Caster problem as well. Assuming your original posted specs were in inch units, you're only speaking of 0.04 (hundreths) of an inch difference side to side. this would be considered within tolerance.

A pulling condition caused by alignment can be caused by
1) Greater Camber angle on one side (Pulls to the higher value) and
2) Less(er) Caster angle on one side (Pulls to the lower value)

I suspect something else is involved here

P

vshavoc

Thanks for the input P Adams. I need to look at the alignment printouts again and look at what you're talking about. I'm stumped and am probably gonna take it to the dealer as soon as I can. I called them and they said Big-O is wrong and there has to be a problem somewhere in the suspension because even though it's in tolerance it shouldn't be pulling like that. I just gotta wait to see how my dad turns out before I spend anything.

Turbowa

Here's another question one has asket yet. How often are you rotating your tire's? How long are the generaly suppost to last?

You said it yourself its a slight drift. This is normal because of the crown of the road. You shouldn't be driving the car with your hand's off the steering wheel in the first place.

If you want post the print out's of the alignment's for ****'s and gig's. Then we have something to look at.

cautrell05

First off post where the alignment is right now, camber caster and toe. As an alignment tech for over 10 years I can tell you just cause its green doesent mean it will drive straight. Theres alot more to it than that.

Nick