ISUBIEXI

I have a H23A Swap using Phearable programmed p28, using the H23A intake Manifold/throttle body with H23A Injectors and rail. I have a Earls in line filter as well. I finally got my AEM Wideband and AF gauge installed and on the first drive it appears I'm at about 10 at Idle and under load or WOT I hit around 12. I will keep an eye on it and see if I can be more specific. It never went into the 13s. Unless I am reading this backwards that means I am running rich. This is a Daily driver but i only drive maybe 10 miles a week.

How should I interpret those numbers? From what i understand (obviously that's limited) running rich is generally the safe side of tuning. From what I have read i should be more like 13-14. Am i safe to drive like this for an extended time? Is there anything i should be looking at outside of tuning? Plugs/wires/cap/rotor all have less than 1000 miles maybe less than 500. I am still running an internal coil off a D16, i wonder if that makes any difference, i have the replacement but have not gotten around to making the change.

Its possible that Phearable purposely has it rich for safety until a proper tune can be completed.

I planned to take the car to the dyno to get a baseline in the next few months but maybe i should save up and get it tuned instead. Any thoughts?
Any inputs on what i should have done before getting it tuned? I am running the car off the narrowband O2 and the Wideband/gauge is stand alone at the moment not connected for logging or the ecu. I do plan to assemble what i need for logging/tuning/burning chips but I'm not quite there yet. This is for fun, learning and enjoyment and not an all out race car. I got the wide band as a Safety since i didn't know what the phearable tune was doing to my AF and if i am going to get the car tuned i want to see where it stands and not be another poster that says they got their engine tuned and it blew up a few days later from a bad tune.

Any help would be appreciated.

Aradin

For an NA application you should be around 14.7-15.5 idle/cruising ideal for best fuel economy. WOT should be about 12.5-12.8 depending on the engine setup. Part throttle should be between those values and transition smoothly for maximum driveability.

The lower the number the richer it is. Running too rich is just as bad as running too lean. I would contact Phearable and see if they would send you a new base calibration as it seems the one you have is very off. There's no need for the low load values to be that rich. You should be wary of any map you get from them without following up with a proper tune. They are not designed to be driven at WOT. I have seen a few engines pop from them. One in particular was an H23A as well. It busted ringlands in 2 cylinders due to the map. Good luck.

ISUBIEXI

Ok so as far as WOT I'm not too far off. How much does vacuum come into play regarding fuel? I need to double check to make sure all of the ports are capped. I vaguely remember having some issues after the swap and the H23A Throttle body not having a screw to adjust idle. The hole was sealed and not just missing the screw.

I plan to get it tuned but I went ahead and got the wideband so I could see where I stood. Ill definitely work towards getting this sorted out now that I know where I stand. The car feels really good so I didn't think I had any issues, glad I got the wideband now.

Aradin

Vacuum is paramount to the ECU regarding fueling. The MAP sensor tells the ECU the amount of vacuum(or boost) the engine is seeing via a 0-5v signal so that the ECU knows how much fuel to inject.

ISUBIEXI

I plugged the additional vacuum port and the car was idling at the brink of stalling and before vtec engagement the car is definitely struggling. The AF did not change much if any. I was thinking of trying to reset the ECU and let it learn the idle again, you think this may help?

I think I need to pull my throttle body and investigate a bit. Any idea what thermal gasket fits the H23A manifold and H23A throttle body properly? I was going to do this during the swap but I did not know what gasket to use. I ended up just pulling one of the caps off and the car ran great so I never bothered pulling it off and checking the Throttle body adjustment screw situation.

ISUBIEXI

Silly question, if I change from 91 octane to 87 do you think that may help to level out my rich condition? I want to try to sort out this vacuum issue before taking it to get tuned.

Is there anything else I should consider before heading to get tuned, will a Vacuum gauge make things easier, Should I spend the money to get the Data Logging set up? I have never been to the dyno or to get tuned so I honestly don't know what is needed. I have the Wide band that I believe has wire to connect for logging, My ECU should have a header for a logging cable as well. Will the tuner have the cable already, will they use it? Will the tuner provide the chips or do I need to bring them? I am asking this in general, I know each tuner may do things differently.

Hulog Datalogging Cable $45

ISUBIEXI

I went ahead and capped the line to the EGR and unplugged since I have a block off plate and with the phearable chipped ECU it no longer looks for it. No change there. As far as Vacuum goes I have the FPR connected and the EGR Vacuum control Valve. I didn't realize those 2 valves on the driver side were EGR related. I am going to go ahead and cap those off as well. I capped off the EVAP purge control and to my surprise even with it disconnected and uncapped there was no change. There may be some blockage in the Throttle body and that could be my whole issue. I really need to figure out the correct gasket and get it pulled off.

I pulled the positive from the battery to the fuse box for 10 minutes to reset the ecu and tried the relearn process and there was no change. I have never see any indication that OBD1 actually does a learning but I figured I would give it a try. The Idle is just above stalling, the idle hunts as its trying to not stall.


Watching the gauge more closely its between 10-11 at idle and 11-12 at part throttle and 12-13 at WOT. Its hard to really get a good look at it since I'm driving around town. I have not had it on the freeway since adding the gauge.

ISUBIEXI

Oddly enough. I capped the EGR Control Valve and at idle I'm up to 10.9, partial throttle I'm over 12 and WOT no change. The idle is still just a hair too low, its almost there, I think I may have gained an additional 50-100 rpm at idle..

ISUBIEXI

I went ahead and ordered. Torque Solution Thermal Throttle Body Gasket: Honda S2000 AP1 2000-2005 from Amazon. $20.69. Hopefully this one fits correctly because once I have the TB off I'm screwed. lol

ISUBIEXI

My new Gasket came in today so i pulled the Throttle body, the old gasket came off cleanly(of course it will come off clean when i have a replacement). Took some pics to compare with H22A Side by side H22a and H23AV Throttle Bodys

Side by side H22a and H23AV Throttle Bodys

The stock gasket is just a hair bigger than the inner Diameter of the H23AV TB

Here is the H23AV Stock gasket on the h22a TB. I put it on as reference to the size difference, not a big change but noticeable.

H23AV has no port where the idle screw should set.

H22A Idle screw port

H23AV Idle screw hole is not open at the bottom and not tapped. The diameter is just a tad smaller than what is needed to fit the screw and gasket

H22A Idle hole for reference

AP1 Gasket appears to be a perfect fit.
I went ahead and re-installed the TB with the new thermal gasket. I was thinking of drilling and tapping the H23AV throttle body to add the idle screw but i figured if i needed some extra air i can pull one of the vacuum caps, maybe i should just add a valve. Im guessing when i tune the car i can get it dialed in with software. The car idles perfectly when its cold, but once its warm its 100-200 rpm too low, not a huge change is needed. I have been driving with all of the Vacuum lines capped and i have noticed some hesitation down low, im guessing the ECU is struggling to keep the car idling and the fueling is not right.

Just to be clear, the S2K AP1 gasket seemed fit perfectly.

ISUBIEXI

I pulled the trigger on the DataLogging Cable from Phearable.net. I went to check out and it was 20$ shipping, for a tiny cable... So I figured since I didn't want to pay that outrageous shipping cost a second time I bought the Burn2 Chip Programmer and 2 Single Blank SST 27Sf512 Chips. Hopefully those are the correct chips.
$45.00 for the cable
$89.99 for the burner
$10x2 for the chips
$35 for shipping

I figured I would eventually figure out how to work crome a bit and make a few tweaks to my program. Hopefully I can copy my current program as a starting point.

GhostAccord

Should have saved up a few more pennies and went with a ROM Emulator so you could do live tuning. Something like the Moates Ostrich/Demon with Crome or spend a little more and gone with a better source, NepTune RTP with a Demon II. It's a bit more money but a lot less headaches, I mean a lot less. Having to do a run and then pull, burn, and replace the ROM chips is so time consuming and burn errors with Crome can be a nightmare.

Getting the current tune off of your chip depends on whether or not you have the software that was used and if it is locked by the tuner. Also depends on whether or not the chip is soldered directly to the ECU board. Most chipped ECU's these days use a ZIF socket so you are able to remove the EPROM chip (SST 27Sf512).

ISUBIEXI

Honestly I never bothered to open up the ECU once I received it. It was done by phearable so I assumed they used a ZIF. I guess ill find out when I finally open it. I was soo happy to receive the ecu and get my new engine running I just plugged it in and a few days later mounted it.

I thought I still needed the burn2 unit even if I had the emulator? Still learning slowly step by step. Well if getting an emulator will help I may grab one down the road. I just wanted to lean things out a bit and improve my idle a bit. I still plan to dyno tune but I dont want to go to the tuner half assed and get screwed over.

I pulled into Walmart yesterday and as me and my daughter were walking up(playing pokemon) some guy in a truck pulled up and asked if that was my white prelude. lol. He continued to ask if I knew what running rich was, then he continued by saying that I should be shooting flames. So I guess its a little obvious. lol. I wonder if I actually am shooting flames? I dont have a cat so maybe. hahaha

ISUBIEXI

hmmm.. looking into this a little more, the Demon/Ostrich combo would end up costing me another $500. That does sound like a much better solution but its a bit outside of my budget. I may play with the tune a bit gradually but most likely that's it. I think making a few small adjustments then swapping chips will be acceptable for me, I don't plan to make any additional changes to my car for a while(hopefully I can stick to that). I live in SoCal so the weather is pretty consistent.

Hopefully I can get my tune off the chip, its going to be difficult if I don't have a good starting point.