g0at357

In need of some serious advice...this is problem was doing about 70mph on the highway heard sumthing a like a rock hit the windshield but about 15 miles later, car shut off on me...wouldnt start...so found out timing belt broke...at the end of replacing timin belt rotated the cam to make sure everything was good...while rotating wit the valve cover off found out cam shaft broke leavin one side rotating while other side wasnt...now what wut should i do replace the head completed? or replace the cam shaft ? by the way just did a motor swap 3 months ago from a non vtec to a vtec f22b...so i am lost and willing to do anything...i am trying to save myself from doing another motorswap...

95 accord f22b1 vtec

DoC-JoneS

need to pull the head and make sure your pistons are okay. after that i'd check all the valvetrain components. make sure you didn't fark anything else up in the process. never heard of a broken camshaft unless something forcefully stopped the camshaft or sheared it. your head SHOULD be fine. just pull the head and inspect everything. hopefully all you'll need to do is rebuild the head. worst case scenario your valve kissed a piston and your motor may be toast. gl.

A_Rotary_Guy

Honestly, from the sound of it, the motor is probably gonna be toast. If you got something jammed so bad that it broke the camshaft you're going to for sure have serious issues in the head and I'm guessing that a few of the pistons maybe be scored up from a few of the valves being stuck open.

g0at357

well i am going to take the head apart and take a look, not really sure what i am looking for 1st time doing this, another question is...how could i get something stuck in the head that could break the crank shaft does anyone know where could something come from to do that...any takers.


p.s i appreciate all the advice you guys give...

Clone1

You just said crankshaft in your last post... assuming you still mean the camshaft??

My guess:

Your timing belt snapped letting the engine freewheel out of time. I assume that is an interference engine allowing the piston to hit a valve or 2 or 16!! The camshaft snapped when a piston hit a valve. So I'd really say you have a trashed head and probably damaged pistons along with the cylinder walls if the broken valves took a ride.

Do you know the history of the engine? Maybe it had been rebuilt with some inferior parts or the builder did a bad job. There are many scenarios that could have really happened.

Clone1

Pop the head off and get us some pics...

hondadude

I would do some simple checks before pulling the head.
Pull the cam out and check the cam journals to see if the cam seized from lack of lube.
If all that is well and good, the valves should all be closed with the cam out; so rotate the crank 90 degrees from TDC, then put a tight fitting hose in the spark plug holes and blow into it to see if there are any bent valves [air escaping thru intake or exhaust ].
If all that is well and good, throw in a replacement cam, new T-belt and see what happens.
I can't believe the T-belt stripping teeth caused the cam to snap in 2.
And if you think about it for more than 2 seconds....there is no way a valve hitting the piston would cause the cam to snap either.

The one eyed tech says the car is low on coolant/ the two eyed tech says WHY is the car low on coolant

Clone1

OK I thought about it for more than two seconds and I agree... other valvetrain would give up before the camshaft.

But then again, that would mean the belt and camshaft would have had to break simultaneously, right?? What's the chances of that? If the belt broke first, then the cam would not have. If the cam broke first, the belt would not have.


Modified by Clone1 at 6:33 PM 12/27/2007

g0at357

i will upload some pic's as soon as tomorrow!!! I took a look at the cam shaft and the cam shaft cracked pretty much in the center i haven't taken the head completely apart yet but from what i see thats where it broke.

I don't really know the true history of the engine (pretty dumb of me!!)

No i dont believe this is an interference engine cause from what i researched if the timing belt snaps it has a crank angle sensor that plays a role in the safe keep of some part of the engine

The only belt that i seen that was cracked was the timing belt. what i think is that cam shaft snapping is what cause the timing belt to break. well now the thing is that i put a new timing belt on the car and then rotated it and only saw the side closest to the timing belt moving showing me were it broke...

so maybe the timing belt was breaking and tension cause the cam shaft to break...

m735is

I bought my 96 lx with a broken camshaft. The pevious owner didn't know how to change or even check the oil. There was about a quart of oil left in it and the valve train was FULL of black burnt very sticky/crumbly oil. The cam broke just under a bearing cap near the dist side of the head. The journal was pretty messed up.

You can take off the valve train and check the journals etc, but I would want to remove the whole head and see what, if anything happened to the pistons and/or valves.
You also need to know why this happened before you decide what to do. Although it's going to be hard to rotate the motor and check for any problems with the cam be broken. Did you have a low oil light or anything on the dash?

Seeing as the previous owner didn't maintain the car at all, I opted for a replacement motor.

turbowagon94

i agree check the journals. i've seen quite a few f22's break cams. most were caused by lack of oil or maintenance. most of the time the cam seizes in the journal and the timing belt breaks the cam. anyway my .02. check everything good though if it's questionable change it.

g0at357

sorry took so long to reply, work has been hectic...

turbowagon: there was an oil light on my dashboard, but it would only come on if i was driving for a while, it would flicker for a while then it would stay on after i have been driving for a while, or sometimes it would just flicker.

also when i took the valve cover thevalve train was FULL of black burnt very sticky/crumbly oil as well.

also can someone tell me what the journal is and how to check it thank you...

m735is

The journal is the part that the cam spins in. You would have to remove the rocker assembly, remove the cam and look at them. Mine broke inside of one of the journals, then spun in there and chewed it up.

philadd

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by g0at357 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No i dont believe this is an interference engine cause from what i researched if the timing belt snaps it has a crank angle sensor that plays a role in the safe keep of some part of the engine
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I believe you are a little confused.

In an interference engine, the pistons and valves occupy the same space, although at different times. If a piston is moving towards the top of its stroke, the valves must close in order to prevent contact. If the timing belt breaks, valves open at the wrong time, and bam... contact. In a non-interference engine, the pistons and valves never occupy the same space. Your engine is most definitely an interference engine.

The crankshaft position sensor determines timing for the fuel injection and ignition for each cylinder, and it also reads engine rpm. If your timing belt breaks, only luck can keep any part of the engine safe.

I hope that clarifies things.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by g0at357 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">turbowagon: there was an oil light on my dashboard, but it would only come on if i was driving for a while, it would flicker for a while then it would stay on after i have been driving for a while, or sometimes it would just flicker.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Bingo. Never ignore that warning light. By the time that light comes on, you're already in trouble.

Ronin1

Your description of the oil when you removed the valve cover and repeated low oil pressure warnings does not bode well for the rest of the engine.

The oil return galleys (the holes in the head where the oil returns to the pan) are probably pretty well plugged up which caused the oil to accumulate in the head and have a low level in the pan. The screen on the oil pump may well be clogged up with the gunk, too, which would have made it difficult to supply oil to the engine even if the oil pump pick up were not exposed to air.

The camshaft journals which people have described should be very carefully examined to see if they are discolored or if there is scraping/scoring.

After removing the head and examining the pistons and cylinder walls for damage I would pull the oil pan and look at things, including pulling the main journal bearings and rod bearings to look for damage due to poor oiling. If they are damaged, you are looking at some pretty serious work. At the least (if things are scored) you would need to get the crank cleaned up and put some oversize bearings in. What is unknown is how the piston rings have fared. At the very least I would be concerned about the (bottom) oil control ring having been stuck by the poor quality of oil.

A very careful examination of the engine and the cost of repairing it as compared to simply replacing it may be in order.

If you should replace the engine, I would suggest taking the oil pan and valve cover off to examine things (before installing it &lt;edit&gt; actually, before buying it if that is possible, but it may not be) to see what, if anything, it may need. Generally, a look under the valve cover will tell you quite a lot.

Good Luck


Modified by Ronin1 at 12:11 PM 1/5/2008