I need to know if a single walbro 255 and 1200cc injectors can help me break 400whp safely with e85. Also, do I need an e85 basemap to drive to my tuner or can i just empty out the 93 octane and fill up e85 and drive to him?

Motor:
Lsvtec
81mm nippon pistons
Eagle rods
Dual valve springs
Gsr cams
B16 head
Godspeed gt35
Godspeed cast top mount manifold

 

You have enough fuel for 400hp on e85. And yes you will need a basemap for e85. Depending on how much gas is left when you put e85 in it you may want to run a tank or 2 through it also. I tune my own cars and I always notice the 2nd tank of E is a bit leaner than the first even if you try to run it as low as possible. After that you're good to go.

 

You have more than enough injector for those power goals. And to reiterate what was said, yes, you need a basemap for e85.

How far is the drive to your tuner?

 

Thanks guys, hes 50min away, about 30 miles. So i should get a basemap, drain the tank and fill with e85 and drive till its empty and refill and then go tune?

 

If 500 was the goal what would the pump/injector combo need to be?

 

For 500whp, you could use a 255lph, but it'd have to be hard wired rather than on factory wiring if you want to push it that hard. Otherwise, the Walbro 340 is a good option.

For injectors, the rough math is 6cc per whp on pump gas and 30% more (or 7.8cc/whp) on E85. Math is as follows - again, this is a guesstimate, not fact.

500whp x 7.8cc(per whp) = 3900cc total flow
3900cc / 4 injectors = 975cc a minimum

Basically, a set of 1000cc's is going to run out of steam around that 500whp mark. For that kind of power, i'd opt for 1200 or 1600s.

Pretty much. I'd refill with a half tank of e85 and run that out. While you're driving off the excess gas, you can check to see if the setup is working properly. There's nothing worse than finding stupid little issues while you're paying $150/hr for a dyno session.

 

Ok thanks for the help

 

I absolutely maxed my 1000's, as in couldn't get the injectors to flow more, at 460whp w/ E85. With a Walbro 400 I was able to reach 567 with the same (60psi) base pressure. But a more efficient engine could do a bit more.

Food for thought.

 

Thats great info. I have been looking for something that straight forward. Thank you.

 

What BSFC is that based on? That could change alot depending on the setup

 

No BSFC baseline... This is guesstimation (mainly for Honda vtec engines), and I agree it's wildly inaccurate between varied setups. This hp based method doesn't hold water for every platform - obviously v8, rotary, high tq, etc setups are vastly different from Hondas in their fuel demands. Even something as similar as a turbo LS vs turbo GSR/B16 would require different amounts of fuel based on how/where they make power, how much tq, etc.

I'm open to other methods, but this is my quick rule of thumb

 

Hey guys, I see you talking about fuel pumps...

*cough cough* https://honda-tech.com/forced-induct...s-you-3196937/

 

I maxed my 1000cc ID's out at 650whp on E98 with dual Bosch pumps.

 

**** e85 run meth

 

I made 600 on E85 with ID 2000's, single Walbro 255lph and Bosch 044 with stock fuel lines. I was told my limiting factor were my pumps

 

Gee that makes sense. Horrible fuel mileage, takes way more methanol to make the same power, rings have to be gapped super loose which causes rapid oil contamination...

Methanol has no place in a daily driven street car.

 

Huh?... Boonswoggle. We've been running methanol and even propane injections since 2003 around Michigan. Hell, most the of 4G63 Powered bangers around here do nothing BUT run methanol everyday.

I even make my own 80/20 mix. To hell with E85 and its pump station inconsistencies. I'd rather make my own fuel. :tongue:

 

I believe he was referring to methanol as the main fuel source. Horrible idea for a street motor. Rhys Millen campaigned a methanol fueled charger one year in FormulaD. They spent more time working on the damn thing then competing. Not to mention they were doing constant oil changes throughout the event. It takes a lot of work to tune a methanol motor that doesn't run WOT all the time.

I have been curious about propane or LNG injection on a gasoline motor though. I mean Ford produced LNG fueled vehicles and our MARTA public transportation buses run LNG now. I know the benefits of propane and even nitrous with diesels, I even have a 110lb D.O.T. certified propane tank during around for when I can finally pick up an M35A2 as a toy lol, but I've never really seen it used on gasoline applications. Probably due to the size needs for an adequately sized tank.

I've even questioned the idea of oxygen injection, probably due to the number of various sized welding tanks I have laying around full of pure O2 but I think it would be too volatile to be safe and consistent unless injection rates were kept low. One backfire or spark and boom.

I'm planning on starting with a 70/30 methanol to water ratio with my setup and possibly blend in nitromethane or a bit of toluene. You aren't afraid that 80% methanol is a potential fire hazard?

 

I thought Rhys was using Ethyl-Alcohol on that one, and not methanol?

 

You might be right. I think that was either 2011 or 2012. All I remember was he had terrible tuning problems and was rarely able to complete a full run all season. It ran great at idle and WOT off the start but once he had initiated and was rapidly moving through various levels of throttle inputs and engine loads it would start stumbling and breaking up to the point where the motor would lose power, wouldn't rev, and would shutdown.

IIRC he was using a NASCAR Dodge R5P7 motor.

P.S. Mac you have an email and why are you up this late lol? This is rare for you