i found out the hard way that the plx w/bosch vw widebands and e85 dont mix very well.
are the fjo or innovative widebands more forgiving?as far as enabling the vehicle back to closed loop, will the e85 prematurely wear out the factory 4 wire o2s?if so,are there any replacement o2s we can run?

 

I know this is off topic, and it's good for performance, but we're being taught in class that it actually takes more energy from fossil fuel in order to turn corn into ethanol for the tank. So, when they show you a 'green' fuel cap, I believe there's still a gallon of gas bring burned for every gallon of e85. a trip huh? don't mean to veer the thread off course..

bump

 

good luck gettin an accurate reading from a wideband when using alcohol fuel.

 

there used to be an official ethanol thread around here that i believe talked about this. havent heard from the thread in a while.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">good luck gettin an accurate reading from a wideband when using alcohol fuel. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Why is that?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">good luck gettin an accurate reading from a wideband when using alcohol fuel.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, why is that?

Alcohol is much easier on o2 sensors than leaded race fuel is. There's no reason your PLX won't work. Put a new sensor in it if the old one is done. Those sensors don't last very long to begin with.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">good luck gettin an accurate reading from a wideband when using alcohol fuel.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just tune in lambda to simplify things.

 

Still - - E85 is legal on the street and continuing advancements in production have allowed E85 production to improve significantly. and - it's always better than leaded.

 

O2 sensors measure oxygen.

 

I actually tried the plx and that e85 ruined the wideband within 3 passes. It even ruined the dynojets wideband. It was not a motec wideband that was being used on the dyno, i'll have to check and see what brand it was. It seems like they were ruined from the excessive moisture that this fuel produces from burning so cold. I have read and searched all the archived threads and have not seen anyone with similar problems. I just want some input, so i can continue playing with this fuel. Thanks

 

bump for input

 

you can tune a wideband with alcohal its just gonna read lower A/F like around 8:1-10.5:1 BUT the lambda reading would still read around the same

 

is there a better o2 sensor that will last with the PLX M series?

im going to be running E85 and ill be using a wideband to keep an eye on things after tuning

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by integrated civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I actually tried the plx and that e85 ruined the wideband within 3 passes. It even ruined the dynojets wideband. It was not a motec wideband that was being used on the dyno, i'll have to check and see what brand it was. It seems like they were ruined from the excessive moisture that this fuel produces from burning so cold. I have read and searched all the archived threads and have not seen anyone with similar problems. I just want some input, so i can continue playing with this fuel. Thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>

How do you have the sensor mounted? If it's not mounted right it will collect moisture.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by melovesboost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is there a better o2 sensor that will last with the PLX M series?

im going to be running E85 and ill be using a wideband to keep an eye on things after tuning</TD></TR></TABLE>

The sensor used with the PLX/Zeitronix/Innovative/AEM are all the same sensors used on a number of OEM vehicles. I believe under typical usage they are rated for 70,000miles. I wouldn't be too concerned about the life of the sensor, especially since they are only $40.

 

Sounds to me like you have other problems at hand. How is it mounted? We have numerous dyno passes and over 3k of daily driving on our VW sensor and E85. Not to mention it had about 10k on 93 before changed to E85.

 

Bump, Like to know about mounting location. I've gotta get another Bung to mount my WB o2 mounted on my new DP. Any info on this would be great. I plan on runing E85 also.


-Chad-

 

it is mounted in stock formation in the downpipe" like in a stock header 02 placement". would it be better to mount it on the 90 deg elbow coming rt off the turbo exh housing? like this&gt;


Modified by integrated civic at 4:37 AM 4/7/2007


Modified by integrated civic at 4:39 AM 4/7/2007

 

bump i would also like to know the best placement for a wideband

 

whats stoich for E85, isnt it too low for the M300 to have a readout for?

I think i rember hearing that stoich is like 9-1, or 10-1, and my M300 stops reading after 9-1 i think, its been a while.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93supercoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">whats stoich for E85, isnt it too low for the M300 to have a readout for?

I think i rember hearing that stoich is like 9-1, or 10-1, and my M300 stops reading after 9-1 i think, its been a while.</TD></TR></TABLE>

read my post an you will kno

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93supercoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">whats stoich for E85, isnt it too low for the M300 to have a readout for?

I think i rember hearing that stoich is like 9-1, or 10-1, and my M300 stops reading after 9-1 i think, its been a while.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I seriously don't understand why everyone has such a problem with widebands and other fuels. I guess it's from the fact poeple don't understand the concept of lambda.

First, widebands measure the oxygen content in lambda. This value is simply converted for easy reading (ie 14.7, 10-20, etc) and is only accurate for GASOLINE. The PLX M300s display is converted for A/F ratio for GASOLINE ONLY.

If you have a fuel that is stoich at 9:1 then lambda is 1 and the WBs display is for GASOLINE, then guess what, at stoich, the reading will be guess what, 14.7, which equals a lambda of 1.

 

WERD!^^

Do a little research on how Lambda values work, once you know whats going on you'll quickly realize that it dosn't matter what the mixture of gas or alcohol you run. But of course you'll need a wideband that will display lambda.

 

Mount the sensor above the 9 and 3 o clock positions in the pipe, keep it away from the bottom where moisture accumulates.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dc2turbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Why is that?</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yeah, why is that?

Alcohol is much easier on o2 sensors than leaded race fuel is. There's no reason your PLX won't work. Put a new sensor in it if the old one is done. Those sensors don't last very long to begin with.</TD></TR></TABLE>

this is the word of the guy we go to that does the tune on our alcohol burning hotrod car. he has been doing this forever... from what i gather, the wideband will simply not be accurate enough with methanol. anyone want to calll him up and ask about it ? 215-257-3724
(ask for bill)