I have a PLX M300 wideband, and running E85, and mine is working fine. The PLX displays the same A/F values it would if you are running gasoline. Like at idle it reads 14.7 and under boost it reads 11.8. And, the sensor does not wear out prematurely. I've been using mine for months.

 

when tuning meth you can still use a wideband that only reads gasoline afr's. You just have to remember that 1lambda with the meth is still going to display 14.7:1 on your gasolind afr wideband. So if you tune the afr's the same as you do with normal gas the lambda values will be right where you want them.

 

where is your wideband mounted?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

this is the word of the guy we go to that does the tune on our alcohol burning hotrod car. he has been doing this forever... from what i gather, the wideband will simply not be accurate enough with methanol. anyone want to calll him up and ask about it ? 215-257-3724
(ask for bill)

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E85 is ethonal its a different chemical composition go take a look but it is still an alcohal but so is isoproyl lol

 

what is your point ?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what is your point ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

that you tune ethanol differently than you tune methanol and that they burn differently leaving behind different waste products

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by F20Cteg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I seriously don't understand why everyone has such a problem with widebands and other fuels. I guess it's from the fact poeple don't understand the concept of lambda.

First, widebands measure the oxygen content in lambda. This value is simply converted for easy reading (ie 14.7, 10-20, etc) and is only accurate for GASOLINE. The PLX M300s display is converted for A/F ratio for GASOLINE ONLY.

If you have a fuel that is stoich at 9:1 then lambda is 1 and the WBs display is for GASOLINE, then guess what, at stoich, the reading will be guess what, 14.7, which equals a lambda of 1.


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check this thread out.
its explained in here:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1812349

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

this is the word of the guy we go to that does the tune on our alcohol burning hotrod car. he has been doing this forever... from what i gather, the wideband will simply not be accurate enough with methanol. anyone want to calll him up and ask about it ? 215-257-3724
(ask for bill)

</TD></TR></TABLE>


So if the wideband isn't accurate enough, what does he go by? You damn sure can't go by plug readings on methanol. Please don't tell me he goes by EGT? I think i've put enough methanol cars down the track tuning by lambda to say it seems to work ok for me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


So if the wideband isn't accurate enough, what does he go by? You damn sure can't go by plug readings on methanol. Please don't tell me he goes by EGT? I think i've put enough methanol cars down the track tuning by lambda to say it seems to work ok for me.</TD></TR></TABLE>

agreed dturbocivic do you actual tune or have anyone else beside the guy you mentioned tune your alcohal cars

 

whats the best placement of the wideband sensor? my friend used to have it mounted right at the 90* turn after the turbo and it kept burning up the sensor. my innovate says 18" behind the turbo is good. but if you dont have room then what? tony, whats the min. shortest length for the o2? also what are your thoughts on o2 at the elbow? thanks

 

the o2 sensor should be place 12-19 inches downstream of the turbine outlet 12 inches is the min. distance the 02 can be from the turbo and 19 the max. also if you put a o2 on the elbow you risk burning the o2 sensor to nothing.

 

yeah my friend burnt 2 o2 sensors because the bung was welded at the 90*. so if we all know it burns on the 90 then why do so many people who makes downpipes weld a bung there? lol

 

lol they rely on people not knowing its a problematic spot if you get a pic of your fiends DP then i can help you on placement options

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


So if the wideband isn't accurate enough, what does he go by? You damn sure can't go by plug readings on methanol. Please don't tell me he goes by EGT? I think i've put enough methanol cars down the track tuning by lambda to say it seems to work ok for me.</TD></TR></TABLE>


he does put the wideband in the dp when we tune. im not 100% sure on the method to the madness but i belive he gets close with the wideband. and we check the plugs after everypull. havent burnt an engine yet. just the other day we were up there picking stuff up for our cars, i asked him about putting a wideband in the car, because i know he doesnt like them for one or another reasons, he advised against it... then i asked about the EGT's.... he said "by that time its too late" ...... so i guess that leaves us with readin plugs??

my plan was to install a wideband, so i can datalog through the ems.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony413 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

agreed dturbocivic do you actual tune or have anyone else beside the guy you mentioned tune your alcohal cars </TD></TR></TABLE>

i do not tune. i know a little about it, but i definitly would not want to try it myself. this is the only guy we've used on our hotrod car thus far.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony413 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

that you tune ethanol differently than you tune methanol and that they burn differently leaving behind different waste products </TD></TR></TABLE>

this will "throw off" the sensor ??


help me understand... i want my car to stay in one piece....

 

The PLX is fine. We tuned my car with it and I've been using it for almost 3,500 miles, and I had ~10,000 miles on it before that.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


he does put the wideband in the dp when we tune. im not 100% sure on the method to the madness but i belive he gets close with the wideband. and we check the plugs after everypull. havent burnt an engine yet. just the other day we were up there picking stuff up for our cars, i asked him about putting a wideband in the car, because i know he doesnt like them for one or another reasons, he advised against it... then i asked about the EGT's.... he said "by that time its too late" ...... so i guess that leaves us with readin plugs??

my plan was to install a wideband, so i can datalog through the ems.

i do not tune. i know a little about it, but i definitly would not want to try it myself. this is the only guy we've used on our hotrod car thus far.



this will "throw off" the sensor ??


help me understand... i want my car to stay in one piece.... </TD></TR></TABLE>

yes it could throw off the sensor because it is leaving a more moist waste try tuning the car on ethanol with the lambas being around .8-.9 those should give you stoich values for alcohal which are around the 8:1-10.5:1 range. if the dosent work try tuning with one wideband and another o2 sensor to make recordings of your readings kinda like a OBDII car

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony413 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

yes it could throw off the sensor because it is leaving a more moist waste try tuning the car on ethanol with the lambas being around .8-.9 those should give you stoich values for alcohal which are around the 8:1-10.5:1 range. if the dosent work try tuning with one wideband and another o2 sensor to make recordings of your readings kinda like a OBDII car </TD></TR></TABLE>

thus makin my statement on the 1st page true or half true

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony413 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

yes it could throw off the sensor because it is leaving a more moist waste try tuning the car on ethanol with the lambas being around .8-.9 those should give you stoich values for alcohal which are around the 8:1-10.5:1 range. if the dosent work try tuning with one wideband and another o2 sensor to make recordings of your readings kinda like a OBDII car </TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't even understand what this is supposed to mean?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I don't even understand what this is supposed to mean?</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah it kinda doesnt make sence but it does. ok ill try again set the car up with two o2 sensors one to the ECU for tuning and datalogging and the second to measure A/F ratios with a regular a/f gauge. yes it is redundant but with one placed further down stream you have a better idea on how much your readings may be off by

 

So if the numbers are different between the two, is it because they're 2 different sensors/guages, or because they're in different locations in the exhaust?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So if the numbers are different between the two, is it because they're 2 different sensors/guages, or because they're in different locations in the exhaust?</TD></TR></TABLE>

it will only be a difference of 6 inches between the two gauges usually trust the second one kinda like an after cat o2 sensor

 

are you doing this test on normal street engines or race engines with large diameter, short length downpipe's ?

 

street engines with 250-350hp for race engines the set-up is one wideband with the o2 sensor 16 inches downstream the DP and tuned on race gas. the reason for the the two on the street engines is because they are daily drivers an in florida theres a ton of traffic and heat so that changes things

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony413 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
yeah it kinda doesnt make sence but it does. ok ill try again set the car up with two o2 sensors one to the ECU for tuning and datalogging and the second to measure A/F ratios with a regular a/f gauge. yes it is redundant but with one placed further down stream you have a better idea on how much your readings may be off by </TD></TR></TABLE>

Am I missing something??

It still doesn't make sense. You don't need 2 o2 sensors. I tuned my car with one (as has almost everyone who has ever tuned a car before) and it's still together along with all of the other cars that I've tuned. Are you doing this with race gas or E85 only?

 

i think we are missing the point on why i said what i did the poster was getting wrong signals with just one wideband because of moisture i suggested using 2 located at different points to help him get a more accurate idea of what his AFR's really are