elpiar

Hi, I did a search for fuel management 101 in the archive and FAQ, but couldn't find one

I'm building my first kit. I don't think I have the money to pay for dyno and tuning.

This is what I understand so far. Tell me if i'm way off.
Option 1: Go with vortech fmu 12:1 w/ stock injector
Option 2: greddy blue box with 350cc injector
option 3: fancy programmable FMU (which i'm not familiar at all what they are and what they do)

Any recommendations?

beepy

No matter what you choose, there will be really two options:

1) Get a wideband (and maybe an EGT) and tune it on ehte street, assuming you know what you're doing. This will cost at least $300.

2) Take it to a shop to have it dyno tuned. In some cases this is the cheaper option.

As for your options, none are really good. Go Uberdata for simplicity.

Dunc

Opinion of just about everyone here: buy an AEM EMS or Hondata and get it tuned. Injectors depend on how much power you want and Hondata/AEM can handle just about any size (typically most people won't be going over 1000cc-----typically)

I agree with the above. Buy a wideband and install it for street tuning as well (knowning your A/F at all times is the most valuable piece of info)

elpiar

If I get an AEM EMS or hondata, do I have to tune it at a Dyno?
how much you think I will pay for tuning?

So what about the drag kit that include only the vortech FMU? While it's called a "bolt-on" will it really work without tuning or any FMU chips?

Dunc

Hondata and AEM both need tuning (full load, boost, etc)....unless you don't mind going 130mph over and over again (possibly going to jail), then I would suggest you get on a dyno haha.

I have the drag kit on mine, but the boost dependent FMU's pretty much suck. Some people I guess like them, but to be safe and get more power you'll need to be able to change ignition timing (that is where you will unlock most of your power).

trickeng

Here is the skinny.

You do not need to be on a dyno. A good street tune with a wide band will be within 5-10% of max on a dyno.

pay someone who knows what there doing $500-$1000 to properly tune an engine managment system. maybe less. there some very good tuner on this site who don't own shops or have overhead who will probably do it cheaper.

OR do it yourself and potencially blow up your motor which will cost you at least $1500-$3000+ to rebuild then spend $500-$1000.

what sounds cheaper to you?

if you can't afford to do it right, you shouldn't do it at all because most people who try to get around doing it correct end up spending more than the initial price.




Modified by trickeng at 7:02 PM 3/9/2005

Dunc

I second that

VTC_CiViC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beepy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No matter what you choose, there will be really two options:

1) Get a wideband (and maybe an EGT) and tune it on ehte street, assuming you know what you're doing. This will cost at least $300.

2) Take it to a shop to have it dyno tuned. In some cases this is the cheaper option.

As for your options, none are really good. Go Uberdata for simplicity.</TD></TR></TABLE>



Buy a system i.e. Hondata, AEM etc.., or go the freeware route with Uberdata or the like.

elpiar

Thanks for all the help so far, I'm beginning to understand more now.

I think I will go with vortech boost-dependent FMU as a start, and probably go uberdata later.

So is it true that tuning basically adjusts?
1. Ignition timing (assuming it has ignition control unit?)
2. Injector control
3. Boost (if equipped with actuated wastegate?)

Do I need to change my stock injector if I'm going vortech FMU?

underpressure02

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by elpiar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for all the help so far, I'm beginning to understand more now.

I think I will go with vortech boost-dependent FMU as a start, and probably go uberdata later.

So is it true that tuning basically adjusts?
1. Ignition timing (assuming it has ignition control unit?)
2. Injector control
3. Boost (if equipped with actuated wastegate?)

Do I need to change my stock injector if I'm going vortech FMU?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes I would not run stock injectors with any type of turbo set up.
Also the EMS will not control your boost unless you have a boost solenoid.
It will also let you change your A/F and timing which is pretty much the most important part.


Also if you are not running any EMS you will need a missing link so you don't throw codes

elpiar

Is uberdata or the like able to change ignition timing without additional ignition control in my 2000 gsr? Sorry, my previous car is 93 civic so i'm a little lagging in new car technologies.

By the way, when I go uberdata, I must get rid of my vortech FMU right? otherwise it will mess up the tuning?

How much do you think it will cost me total if I go uberdata vs. AEM vs. hondata?

underpressure02

Uberdata will be the cheapest then Hondata then AEM. It all depends on really what you want.

Yes you will want to get rid of your fmu when you get an EMS.

SHystrdyGSRtdy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dunc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Opinion of just about everyone here: buy an AEM EMS or Hondata and get it tuned. Injectors depend on how much power you want and Hondata/AEM can handle just about any size (typically most people won't be going over 1000cc-----typically)

I agree with the above. Buy a wideband and install it for street tuning as well (knowning your A/F at all times is the most valuable piece of info)</TD></TR></TABLE>

who's everyone? cuz i know you don't speak for me nor most of the people on here with mild turbo setups...

uber, crome, turboedit, etc... try http://www.pgmfi.org for more tuning info.. those are free programs for you to tune with... and of course you have to buy tuning equipment such as a wideband etc...

Dunc

wow, how did I know that someone would seemingly get offended by that? haha

I know I don't speak for you, thats why I said "just about everyone." You can exclude yourself from that if you like, but you can't deny that even with a mild setup that Hondata or AEM would not benefit you more than a boost dependent FMU. Please note how I said "benefit" and not "what you would choose."

tony n.

Neptune dependin on ur location

trickeng

even with a stock motor. you will benefit from a properly tuned EMS.

FMU's are a cheap way to keep your engine from blowing up but even in mild applications are not ideal. most of the time there are super rich areas of the curve which not only waste fuel but hinder power.

i have not heard to much bad of the neptune ems but i hear the uberdata is riddles with bugs and issues.

Dunc

.....thank you trickeng

SHystrdyGSRtdy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dunc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow, how did I know that someone would seemingly get offended by that? haha

I know I don't speak for you, thats why I said "just about everyone." You can exclude yourself from that if you like, but you can't deny that even with a mild setup that Hondata or AEM would not benefit you more than a boost dependent FMU. Please note how I said "benefit" and not "what you would choose."</TD></TR></TABLE>

i did not get offended... and yes, i would rather him go a different route such as uber, crome, turboedit, and yes even hondata and aem ems.. but those are expensive.. i am taking into account that he has chosen the FMU route for a reason (budget).. so i'd rather suggest him going with a free program.. hondata/aem ems = bank