kmaz93da

looking to do water to air intercooler on my daily street gsr turbo..shooting for 450 on pump...everyone and their mom tells me to use air to air, which i did on last setup...looking for something different and want to know personal benifits to water to air on street

will be using pwr barrel 6x8 920cfm intercooler, bosh water pump,heat exchanger,fan...

dont care about price,pain in *** to hook up, or keep filling water, just want pros and cons of using daily from intake air temps to pressure drop to heat soake....if there isnt much difference in gain or loss between two than im still happy....

kmaz93da

Pics too! if you have them...only in honda,acura chassies

digital sol

iTrader: (1)

im doing a similar set-up right now....running 5 gallon water cell in trunk, Meziere Water Pump, large front mount heat exchanger, pwr barrel "havnt decided what size yet", ss lines/fitting's

im capped to <300whp on the stock motor but eventually am wanting to push 450whp on a built bottom end

theres a local guy here with a similar set-up on a b16, intake temps stay low and he was making close to or over 300whp on 8psi/57 trim, he's never had any complaints...does auto-cross etc and says the temp's stay low

ill be usuing 20%...maybe 40% to be safe antifreeze "gets real cold here in winter", the rest is water/redline water wetter

its not cheap and i know air/air would be cheaper, easier etc, but i wanted to go the hard route...mines still a work in progress, ill post up pics, results, dyno's and all that good stuff when its finished

92redhatch

I wouldn't run a water to air on a street car. it's much easier to run an air to air.at 450whp with an air to air and a nice cooling system I don't think you'll have problems with heat soak. And if you do you can always wrap your manifold/downpipe etc. Now if it's a race car yes I'd run a water to air.

kmaz93da

"its not cheap and i know air/air would be cheaper, easier etc, but i wanted to go the hard route"



Im thinking same thing!..thats what sets my car from rest..no one rocks it often...but everyone says air fmic are just as good for street which im not saying they are not...iv had few other turbo setups wit air to air and no problems..but if there isnt a better reason or benefit to air air vs. water to air than i want to go the different route..

things i heard is more pressure drop on water intercooler(which whatever wastegate or boost controoler is set at wont matter cause will run same psi)

hard to set up,more money,water leaks,have to refill water( i dont care, will run water/anti and heat exchanger,pump,fan

beaneg6

i agree with 92redhatch, water to air isnt too good for a street car, a race/track car is a whole other story, my buddy maintained 80 degree intake temps on the dyno, but he also was adding ice every other dyno pass

kmaz93da

but why isnt it good for street? every one dosnt have way back up their reasons, just going off of what someone else told them, or their shops/tuners opinions..i need proof...

and i will not b using ice box...but heat exchanger instead..

so any difference of a car on dyno using water to air(no ice box) vs. same car on dyno using air to air?

thanks for responses!

honda4g63T

run the water to air the intake temps stay way down. also can you say sleeper no front mount.

digital sol

iTrader: (1)

because on a street car technically after the water warms up you begin just circulating warm water which leads to heat soak how-ever i feel with a nice water to air set-up even on the street the temp's should/can stay down but time will tell........

my plan is to run a larger water/air set-up...nice big heat exchanger, pwr barrel intercooler, 5 gallon cell, mezier pump which flows 20 gallons per minute etc. I think if theres enough fluid in the system and its flowing fast this will help greatly against heat soak and still be very nice for the track or dyno when i can pack ice'...but i have not finished or have any other prior experience with it', so time will tell

Alfa Turbo

A properly size matched A2W system is great for the street. I have used one for years and recently Bugatti and the folks who make the ZR-1 have started to copy me! (grin) So if it is not good enough for 1000BHP street driven vehicle I don't know what is.

Just as you size a radiator for the amount of HP you are going to make you need to balance the components of an A2W system. Also note that on an A2W system when you are not in boost the intake charge cools the water too, its just not the heat exchanger in the system. I can show charge temperatures at a steady ambient plus 20*F... whether at idle at a stop light or at WOT.

Generally, A2W intercoolers have a lower pressure drop than A2A... some though are higher... check the design.

A2W are more costy, more complex, heavier. On the other hand they are better for small spaces, are more efficient and with ice can provide sub-ambient IAT's.

It all depends on what your goals are and yes, one of those goals can be to be different.

If it didn't work you would not find it in the Veyron or Chevy just to name two.

locash

Pro's - Lower intake temperatures on a race car.

Con's - Possible leaks, heat soak if used on a street car, price.

beaneg6

well i can only compare 2 similar cars both with a 35r turbo 1 had water to air but used ice, and the other had air to air, water to air w/ ice intake temps were no higher than 90, air to air intake temps were around 115-125 a heat exchanger will help but it takes longer to cool water,

kmaz93da

ok, thats a bit better, i still would like of known what the car that used w2a intercooler intake temps if he had not used ice..instead an heat exchanger vs the air to air that had 115-125 temps!

Im not trying to just prove w2a is better than a2a or vise versa..rather if they are close to same iat's or just bit off...( if w2a with heat exchanger had even 115-130 temps vs. the air to air you posted wit 115-125 than im happy with that and still would choose water intercooler)

thanks again for responses, keep them going!

beaneg6

i guess if you want to deal with w2a than go ahead, its all about preference, as for me having experiences with both, i would take a2a any day!

tokesGTR

It does take longer to cool off the water, but the times that you're cruising around not in boost that 5-6 gallons of water is being circulated through the heat exchanger and cooling it off.

I, personally, will not run a water-to-air on the street because of the complexity of the system. I seem to have bad luck with cars, so I like to follow the KISS approach. But I do have a friend running a water/air on his regularly road raced miata and it works well for him. He uses a 5 gallon RCI fuel cell in the back for a water tank, with a half-size civic rad for a heat exchanger and a big meziere pump. If it does well enough for him to hot lap it without heat soak, I think it'll be fine for most anyones street setup.

Alfa Turbo

Just a note to those that are concerned about heat soak with an A2W setup. There is none!

A properly designed system will have the resevoir tank below the intake manifold so the water drains back to the tank when the car/pump is off. If you hold water in the intercooler and there is a leak in the intercooler you will fill one or all cyclinders with water and the next time you go to start the engine you will be introduced to the term hydrolock. And... since there is not water to heat... no heat soak.

Tony the Tiger

A2W shouldn't have heatsoak problems, but you'd realize that most A2W setups you see on Hondas have inadequate water cooler/radiators. Thus, you see the common issues of heatsoak because the radiator is so undersized that it takes 10-15 minutes of cruising just to get the temps close to ambient. Then all of a sudden, you bring that car to a drag strip and chug the reservoir full of ice and it performs wonderfully.

I am afraid on a typical turbo Honda, to make room for a nice A2W core + lines + pump + reservoir + heat exchanger/radiator is nearly impossible unless you tube the front-end. If you take a look at some of the OEM's A2W setup, the radiator/exchanger is huge, and gets as big as a common FMIC.

Bailhatch

You can do that with a nice garrett air to air core too...my IATs are around 100 when it's 80 outside with a precision IC.

All the extra weight is a turn off too. One of the things that is great about a honda is the fantastic power to weight ratios street cars can have. What do you suppose a proper a2w setup weighs? Add potential leaks, a tank in the cabin, an electric pump and a fortune in line and fittings, I just don't see why you would want this.

ek2187

I run air to water with a 8 gallon fuel cell in the trunk. My no name pump that pushes 15 gallons a minute works great. my pump is hooked to a toggle switch so when i get on it i flip the switch. When i'm normal driving it stays off....helps the ice last longer. It's different and it works and i love it. my a2w intercool was hundreds less than the air to air i would have needed.

kmaz93da

pics anyone!

Slick_LudE

iTrader: (2)

Definitely possible. This is what mine looks like.

http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/9/c/...83-0.jpg?rev=0

mh

here is my setup.

the radiator is a little smal but it handles street driving. would get something bigger for circletrack days.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...=d16+itb+turbo

awill4x4

While the intercoolers we have built aren't Honda specific they are a bit different to run of the mill water to air i/coolers, we play with Laminova cored units. They have a surface area larger than current tube and fin, bar and plate core used in most common water to air builds.
Here's some pics below of some of the ones we've built and some are still "work in progress". (diesel and petrol applications)
Regards Andrew from Oz.

king06

iTrader: (1)

Man, that's fancy^^

in for info