Whiteintegra

Ok, im confused. I see alot of ls integras that are running 14's with 57trim t3/t4 60/63 making 300whp and like 190 tq.

And then i see alot of other LS integras that are running high 12's with 57trim t3/t4 60/48 making 260whp and 230tq.


shouldn't the car with higher hp run a faster 1/4mile?!?!? i know HP is a funcion of tq over time or something like that, but i'm not exactly sure what is going on? someone please help clarify what is going on!

JDogg

most people cant drive

300hp should run a 12

b18sihatch

it depends on TONS of different factors.

the shell, is it gutted or has all interior
traction, do they have traction bars, perofrmance tires?
transmission what kinda clutch, differential?

also understand the smaller compressor housing while making less horsepower it also spools faster than the larger 60/63

.63 will make more top end
.48 will spool faster in lower rpms than .63

ALSO are these blocks stock internaled?

or if they arent what compresion ratios are they running?

and last factor is driving,how expierenced are the drivers, onebetter than other ect.

Whiteintegra

ok ok... lets get some more input as to the tq situation...

nowtype

No 300whp LS engine is making 190ft lbs of torque. To make 300whp at 7000rpm the engine would be making about 225wtq. My assumption is you aren't looking at things very closely and because of this you are probably missing key points which would cause the problem.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

Lots of factors, Mainly most peopel cant drive and the car isnt setup right so they just have a ton of wheel spin. 300whp is plenty to run 12's if you can drive. Depends what peopel had done to their engines as to why have more torque, but and LS engine making 300whp is making more then 190tq dyno graph might have been off or the tune wasnt right. just to many factors.

Also the .48 a/r is going to make torque earlier then the .63 but will choke out top end power. like stated there are to many variables. But 300whp is a 12 second car with a good driver.

92LSVTEC

driver differnces.... you can put a 14 sec driver in a 10 sec car, and that car will run a 13 at best... all about driver

Whiteintegra

if the tq is coming on stronger in the power band of a .48turbine turbo wouldn't you get wheel spin sooner and spin sooner? therefore effecting the 1/4mile time? It seems that the case is just the opposite. I know there are alot of factors but and i somewhat understand them.

With all the info that i have gathered and all the opnions of everyone else, i think i am going to design my street setup as follows.

STOCK b18b1 (top-bottom)
T3/t4 60/63 stage 1 turbine wheel.
Drag Manifold
Drag 2.5in open DP
Jonny race car 6in FMIC(should help with spool)
2.25 IC piping!!!(should help with spool)
DSM 450cc injectors with FPR so i can bump up fuel pressure


Assuming my compression is good and i am retarding 1 degree per lb of boost after 10psi, i think i should net about 280 whp at about 17psi and some respectable tq!

For some reason, i like the idea of running high boost and semi high HP(at least for a stock block LS). I want to really hear my RFL bov. From what i hear, they don't start getting really loud until after 10psi.

92LSVTEC

dude, i really think you're reading a little too far into it for you if you figure it out

Whiteintegra

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 92LSVTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dude, i really think you're reading a little too far into it for you if you figure it out</TD></TR></TABLE>well, i don't have alot of room for error. So for me, planning is KEY!

But my biggest concerns are making good TQ, Good Spool(full boost by 4k), and Making SOLID power until 7.1k. I don't want to be the guy who reaches full boost at 6k. that bothers the heck out of me! I also don't want to be the guy who reaches full boost a 3.5krpm but looses power at 6k.

I know i should get the gt28rs, but i cant afford it. so i really have to put in the time to design my setup right based on what others have done before me and tune it accordingly!

dpetro1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Whiteintegra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Assuming my compression is good and i am retarding 1 degree per lb of boost after 10psi, i think i should net about 280 whp at about 17psi and some respectable tq!

</TD></TR></TABLE>

keep researching because that statement doesnt make sense.

also and it looks like you are more concerned with the numbers and sounds than putting together a decent setup the will be reliable and fun. your ls has plenty of potential, get it tuned right and let the numbers be a result of it.

and you really dont need a fpr, your setup would be just fine without it.

Whiteintegra

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dpetro1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

keep researching because that statement doesnt make sense.

also and it looks like you are more concerned with the numbers and sounds than putting together a decent setup the will be reliable and fun. your ls has plenty of potential, get it tuned right and let the numbers be a result of it.

and you really dont need a fpr, your setup would be just fine without it. </TD></TR></TABLE>Why dosent that make sense? After 10psi, i am going to setup up my crome pro to retard the timing 1degree for every 1lb of boost i make.

And i know i don't need the FPR, but for saftey i will use it. I don't want to be running 90% duty cycles on 10yr old DSM injectors. thats not the smartest thing in the world!

dpetro1

1. you need to retard timing in boost starting at 1psi not 10. also 1* is a pretty conservative retard.
2. dsm injectors should be just fine at 280whp and stock fuel pressure but if you want to bump it up some that is perfectly fine too.

Whiteintegra

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dpetro1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1. you need to retard timing in boost starting at 1psi not 10. also 1* is a pretty conservative retard.
2. dsm injectors should be just fine at 280whp and stock fuel pressure but if you want to bump it up some that is perfectly fine too. </TD></TR></TABLE>well yeah. I didn't get into detail about my retard, but im going to start retarding @ 3psi. Im using crome's step retard. Sorry for not clarifying this.

Whiteintegra

more opinions, questions, comments!

Thanks!

b18sihatch

also understand short intercooler piping route , larger intercooler piping,larger downpipe/exhaust,larger intercooler... will all effect the spool times of the turbo and overall engine setup.

that is another thing to take into consideration.

as far as wheel spin and all that traction should be taken into account..

ie:
tires.
traction bar.
clutch setup.
LSD if there is one.

comparing one setup to another you must address all aspects of the system.. that was my point addressing the wheel spin sooner with a turbo spooling sooner, traction is key in situations like those..... faster spool + traction = lower 1/4times
faster spool + wheel spin = power wasted by poor traction.

Topdawgg

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">most people cant drive

300hp should run a 12</TD></TR></TABLE>

PrecisionH23a

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">most people cant drive

300hp should run a 12</TD></TR></TABLE>

And a lot of people overlook suspension and tires.

b18sihatch

i was going to say that also, suspension is a big key to play in high horsepower applications, and 1/4 times.

rear strut bar
front strut bar
shocks,suspension,coils,coilovers
roll cage (great for stiffening the overall integrity of the shell)


i dont think most people who have that much power invest that much money into their suspension and loose 1/4 times, maybe not a ton of times on the 1/4 but enough to notice i think

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Whiteintegra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well yeah. I didn't get into detail about my retard, but im going to start retarding @ 3psi. Im using crome's step retard. Sorry for not clarifying this. </TD></TR></TABLE>

With the way things are going with crome (or stock for that matter) and ignition timing, i would be a little more conservative with your timing. I would do a 1*/lb in a linear fashion untill you can get it on a dyno to clean it up. No reason to start that aggressive.

WickedHonda00

something I would point out is that smaller turbo's, while spinning tires some in the lower RPM's will hurt your times, you can consider the fact that they will help your times in 3rd and 4th gears since traction is maintained at those tire speeds. You'll have instant response the moment the gear is shifted, this helps greatly in turbo charged drag setups.

Whiteintegra

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93turbo16 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

With the way things are going with crome (or stock for that matter) and ignition timing, i would be a little more conservative with your timing. I would do a 1*/lb in a linear fashion untill you can get it on a dyno to clean it up. No reason to start that aggressive.</TD></TR></TABLE>well, i wanted to start aggressive to help with spool, but yoru right. Id rather have a slower spool than a blown motor. I will start retarding .2 per psi and step it up from there. This will def be safer than not starting until 3psi

93supercoupe

alot of people cant drive, 300 should be 12s

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Whiteintegra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well, i wanted to start aggressive to help with spool, but yoru right. Id rather have a slower spool than a blown motor. I will start retarding .2 per psi and step it up from there. This will def be safer than not starting until 3psi </TD></TR></TABLE>

I really think you should be even more conservative than that. I would honestly start with a linear retard at this point.

Whiteintegra

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93turbo16 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I really think you should be even more conservative than that. I would honestly start with a linear retard at this point. </TD></TR></TABLE>can you explain to me why? Am i missing something? I though most people used step retards to begin with.