Running925

Hey guys i wanna get a little input here before i go hurting my engine.

I've got a built 2.0 vtec motor that i've spent every penny i have on & can't afford another one. Got my turbo worked on from Blaast Performance.

It was a t3/t4 .60/.63, The bearings were shot & it was leaking & the thrust bearing was broke as well. I paid 600+ dollars to have him bore out, install new shaft & upgrade to +7mm. It's now the size of a gt3582 with the journal bearings.

I've got oil in my charge pipes after 120 miles and it's puffing smoke out my exhaust when i let off the gas pedal.

Blaast says "you aren't using 10-30 oil are you?? make sure to use 5-50."

I'm wanting to know if it's safe to run 5-50 & would it hurt anything. My climate today is
high of 70
low of 39

SETUP:
3an feed off sandwich adapter
5/8 return (long & steep, straight, no kinks from topmount down to pan)
Two 3/4 inch crank case ventilation hoses off the rear of block to huge 1 gal catch can.

the 50 weight oil seems a little heavy to me & thats why i'm worried.

Whats the deal here guys.???

turbodano

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Running925 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey guys i wanna get a little input here before i go hurting my engine.

I've got a built 2.0 vtec motor that i've spent every penny i have on & can't afford another one. Got my turbo worked on from Blaast Performance.

It was a t3/t4 .60/.63, The bearings were shot & it was leaking & the thrust bearing was broke as well. I paid 600+ dollars to have him bore out, install new shaft & upgrade to +7mm. It's now the size of a gt3582 with the journal bearings.

I've got oil in my charge pipes after 120 miles and it's puffing smoke out my exhaust when i let off the gas pedal.

Blaast says "you aren't using 10-30 oil are you?? make sure to use 5-50."

I'm wanting to know if it's safe to run 5-50 & would it hurt anything. My climate today is
high of 70
low of 39

SETUP:
3an feed off sandwich adapter
5/8 return (long & steep, straight, no kinks from topmount down to pan)
Two 3/4 inch crank case ventilation hoses off the rear of block to huge 1 gal catch can.

the 50 weight oil seems a little heavy to me & thats why i'm worried.

Whats the deal here guys.???</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sounds like the turbo is gone again or it could be a drain issue. The thing i see that can be causing the issue is the -3 feed line or the 5/8 drain line. You need atleast a -10 return and make sure it has a 1/2 inside diameter. I have been engineering turbochargers for over 13 years and I have never had an issue with what oil people use other than synthetic.

Check to see if you have in and out shaft play and can make the wheels hit the housings.

chimmike

i've never even heard of 5w50, but that spread is way too big. I'd use 20w50 if you're that concerned, really.

Running925

the return is 5/8's inside diameter.

Larger than the recommended 1/2


The turbo made noise from the first day i got it back, i was instructed to give it a few miles to break in. So thats what i did and the noise went away, now after about 18 dyno pulls trying to get everything setup, and some street driving, the turbo is smoking.

What i wanna know is, should i be sending this turbo back to be inspected and or fixed or should i chance running 50 weight oil in my brand new motor?


Modified by Running925 at 12:29 PM 5/28/2008

Shockster0429

Your crank case vents hooked up to the intake pipe before the compressor? I just went through this same issue with blowing smoke/burning oil, it seems that it was the culprit.

Running925

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shockster0429 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your crank case vents hooked up to the intake pipe before the compressor? I just went through this same issue with blowing smoke/burning oil, it seems that it was the culprit.</TD></TR></TABLE>

in the last 4 years, i've never had to apply vacume pressure to my crank case ventilation system. Everything has worked fine.

turbodano

First off there is no break in period for a turbocharger and it should not be makng noise at all other than a whistle.

Can you descride how you are ending the pulls on the dyno?

You also have not answered my question about the in and out play and seeing if the wheels can/are touching the housings.

I didn't catch the 5/8 id on your drain.

One thing that can happen on the dyno and not alot of people catch this issue until it is to late is they don't give the proper amount of time for the turbo to spool down or cool down. Shutting the turbo off to soon will cook the rear bearing.

Running925

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbodano &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First off there is no break in period for a turbocharger and it should not be makng noise at all other than a whistle.

Can you descride how you are ending the pulls on the dyno?

You also have not answered my question about the in and out play and seeing if the wheels can/are touching the housings.

I didn't catch the 5/8 id on your drain.

One thing that can happen on the dyno and not alot of people catch this issue until it is to late is they don't give the proper amount of time for the turbo to spool down or cool down. Shutting the turbo off to soon will cook the rear bearing. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I understand the no break-in to a turbo charger as i've read this many times over the years.

I've got a greddy turbo timer on the car so it was given at least a good minute or two idle time before shutting the car off between pulls.

There is no end play to the turbo and i'm unable to make it hit the housings no matter what direction i apply pressure to the shaft. It does have slight shaft play, but not enough to hit the housings. (i'm asuming thats a normal amount, it's compable to ther garrets i've had in the past)

Running925

Just recieved a return e-mail from blast concerning a reply that i made questioning the oil that he recommended.

He is usually very quick to respond and i've never had any communication problems with him at all. Delt with him probably 6 times over the last 3 years (my turbos and friends units.

The e-mail is as follows.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Blaast Performance EMAIL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

10-30 is for atmospheric cars.
In a turbo car, when it gets in the turbo center section, 10-30 oil looses all viscosity, becomes clear and runny like water (leak and smoke problems) it doesn't lubricate much and it also burns, resulting in harmful carbon build ups in the turbo. Furthermore, 10-30 in a turbo car deteriorates very fast..
5-50 is lighter than 10-30 when cold and thicker at high temperature. There's no downside to it regardless of your climate.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Flexin5

i have the exact same problem (and from what it sounds like, very close setup) as you. i have a freshly built LS motor, and a T3/T04E .63a/r turbo from blaast too; i'm also running 10w30 oil and it's smoking like a ****. i e-mailed them and they suggested using 20w50? that may be all well and good for the turbo...but i'm concerned if it's the proper type of oil to use in the motor? i forgot to mension that it's ok for daily driving, no smoke, but if i drive the car for a bit and let it idel for more than 5 mins, that's when i get crazy smoke out the back! looks like the damn car is on fire.

also, are you running a restrictor on your turbo? and was yours tapped for a fitting for the oil inlet?

Flashmn

I would try thicker oil.
I personally run 5W40 during winter and 20W50 during summer. I wouldnt even think of running anything XW30 weight on any car, its so damn light.

turbodano

I just wanted to verify that the turbo was still in good shape so we could move on and look at other areas.

A simple thing to do is put in thicker oil even though i would not think it would fix the issue. At least you can go ahead and get that out of the way. One thing I would do is hook you PCV back up to see if it affects things. I know a new engine has some blow by until the rings seat in.

Running925

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbodano &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just wanted to verify that the turbo was still in good shape so we could move on and look at other areas.

A simple thing to do is put in thicker oil even though i would not think it would fix the issue. At least you can go ahead and get that out of the way. One thing I would do is hook you PCV back up to see if it affects things. I know a new engine has some blow by until the rings seat in. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm headed home from work here shortly, i'm gonna put some thicker oil in the motor tonight & take it out for a bit. I'll report back.

My crank case is definatly vented well, i don't see any reason to add a vacume source. I'll also add photo's to support this later. I just wanna get this figured out because i'm going to make a 400+ mile trip down to richmond VA for the HT meet and i don't want something going wrong. This is going to be over 1000 miles total round trip that i'll be adding to this car.

Shockster0429

Tony, its not just "good venting" its pulling a vacuum on the engine's crank case, taking pressure off the valve seals, and actually expanding your rings under boost pressure helping the compression/power in the motor while under load.

I'd personally try both different oil like Blaast suggested along with proper vacuum on your crank case vents.

Remember now you have a fresh motor, along with a larger, higher flowing turbo than before. good luck

turbodano

good point.

90dxhmt

iTrader: (1)

I use 5w50 in my turbo cars works great

Running925

Last night i searched for the recommended 5w50 at two autoparts stores and could not find it so i, drained my 10-30 moble 1 synthetic & put in a conventional 10-40 to see what kinda differences i would see. The smoke comming from my exhaust was dramaticly reduced, there is still a little bit of it, but nothing like it was. I'm not sure how this will effect things in the long term but it's definatly helping as of right now.

After this summer i'll probably pull the motor & check all the bearings and or replace them anyways just as precautionary measure.

If i see any changes in the turbo's behavior in the future i'll be sure to note that in here as well for others that want to know.

The other oil option on the shelf was 20-50 & i wasn't sure if i wanted that thick stuff in there on cold start-up when it drops to 39 degrees around here like it did last nght.

As far as the vacume source for my catch can.. i realy don't have a tube be for my turbo to tap into anyways, its a top mount setup & i'm gonna be hard pressed to even be able to fit a filter on there right now (i want to, just no room).

Flashmn

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I use 5w50 in my turbo cars works great</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well its oil, so yeah, but its also got a very wide temperature range, thus it has long polymer chains, which are the ones that when they break down they cause coking of bearings and sludge.

Shockster0429

Glad to hear its smoking less, hopefully it does go away, or close to all gone for you.

Yeah I'd try to get a filter over that snail, especially with our **** roads, and random debris all over them..

HiProfile

So you spent every dime on that project. IMO that was mistake #1, but that's discussion for another day.

There are very few reasons to use synthetic on a 4 cylinder motor, especially with a turbo. Turbos generally fair worse with synthetic than with conventional. As far as using heavier oil, thats a band-aid, not a solution IMO. My little D16 can keep oil pressure up to the required pressure while feeding an old turbo, and not make it smoke - on 10w30 conventional. You can use a little heavier oil, but generally that's to help make more pressure, not prevent seepage.

I'd also HIGHLY suggest a .060" restrictor. -3an lines are 3/16" ID as per spec, but closer to 1/8" due to lining/etc. Even 1/8" is &gt;4 time as large as that restrictor - thats a lot in terms of oil flow. Unless you're running it at an auto-x track for long races and its not watercooled, the restrictor won't hurt. Its far less of a band-aid than changing oil, since the restrictor only affects the turbo, not engine oil pressure or the pump's efficiency.

Regardless, I'm never sending my stuff to Blaast. Given the problems I've seen here & on HMT, I just don't think the savings are worth it.

Snafubmx234

You sent it to Blaast, that's your problem

Running925

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd also HIGHLY suggest a .060" restrictor. -3an lines are 3/16" ID as per spec, but closer to 1/8" due to lining/etc. Even 1/8" is &gt;4 time as large as that restrictor - thats a lot in terms of oil flow. Unless you're running it at an auto-x track for long races and its not watercooled, the restrictor won't hurt. Its far less of a band-aid than changing oil, since the restrictor only affects the turbo, not engine oil pressure or the pump's efficiency.

Regardless, I'm never sending my stuff to Blaast. Given the problems I've seen here & on HMT, I just don't think the savings are worth it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just to verify, you recommend running a .060" restrictor on a JOURNAL Bearing turbo with a 3an feed line?

Thanks for the input, please recommend another location for rebuilds if you don't think blaast is up to the task.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Snafubmx234 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You sent it to Blaast, that's your problem
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Please don't make statements like this without offering up a better solution. I've had success with them in the past.

I've got a backup turbo that i wanna get rebuilt.

welfarepc

you can pull a vacuum on your crank case if you really want to by doing an exhaust slash cut.

i use LubroMoly 5w40 synthetic and its the best oil ive ever put in my car.

who ever said turbo vehicles fair worse with synthetic over conventional oil hasnt seen the drastic improvements it made to my vehicle