I was told that at higher rpms (6000+) I could add some extra timing (or less boost retard) , since peak torque has passed. Is this true? If so if my total H22 timing @ 15psi is 16*, how about say adding about 2* from 6000 up to redline?

 

Actually the way i believed it worked was like this. You want to time your spark ignition right at the right moment to allow time for the burn and to create peak cylinder pressures at the correct angle to make maximum power (also more efficient). Therefore if you REV 1000 rpm faster (ie: at 6k now you're at 7k) the engine is rotating faster and thus giving the fuel less time to burn in the cylinder. So, you would want to advance your timing as your RPMs go up. But, as there is more load you want to retard timing.

 

would an additional 2* by 8000 be realistc ?

 

honestly go to a dyno an have a good tuner do it for you best advice right there.

 

Why I'm asking is because my H22 does not pull so hard up top as it does at 5-6k. Already tried ajustng cam timing, and my turbo is properly matched. Thats why I am thinking of adding more timing up top.

Is it common for H22's to feel less strong at 7k + ?

 

oooooh ok didnt understand your question. are you aure the turbos sized properly an it might be that your torque is just dropping off

 

well the best way is to actually get your car tuned. I wouldn't add 2 degrees of timing if you really don't know what you're doing. You could seriouslly risk blowing your motor.

What I suggest is to bring your car to an experienced tuner. And make sure that person has good references because a lot of tuners out there don't exactly know what they are doing.

But, if you insist on tuning your own car then I would suggest taking the EFI 101 course for $500. It is worth every penny. The course would teach you a lot of basic knowledge about engines and give you the building blocks to go do your own research.

If I were you I would actually pull 1 degree of timing in the area your tuning and do a run to see if you feel an increase in power. If you do then pull another degree of timing out. Keep taking timing out until power seems to lvl off or drop. Then add .5 of a degree of timing and it should feel better. Add another .5 degree of timing and compare with the pervious run. Go with whatever run pulls hardest and smoothest. If you're uncertain, figure out the area where you get the best power and pull .5 of a degree to give a margin of safety.

In case where you pull timing and power decreses. Put that 1 degree of timing back in. Then up the timing only .25 or .5 at a time. Running timing too advance could destroy a motor rather quickly. Always remember to keep an eye on your AFR's. Making adjustments to timing could sometimes affect AFR and create a lean condition.

goood luck

 

You guys are on the right track... but it has been discovered that when using a honda rom editor, it has ignition advance built into the rom. So that is why the timing values are relatively lower/the same value compared to something like AEM. Just something to think about.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jetlude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why I'm asking is because my H22 does not pull so hard up top as it does at 5-6k. Already tried ajustng cam timing, and my turbo is properly matched. Thats why I am thinking of adding more timing up top.

Is it common for H22's to feel less strong at 7k + ?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Saying its properly sized on HT is like a guy who goes to many rock concerts saying a sound system is loud enough. A properly sized turbo is usually one thats just a bit past its max efficiency, or a bit more. HT's idea of a properly sized turbo is one that pulls hardest at redline, as in a 60trim on a 1.6L hitting 8k.

If it is setup right, then you're getting moving slightly out of the max efficiency island. Your best bet is to use a dyno, as blind tuning is an easy way to blow a motor. *** dynos are notorious for giving bad torque readings, and HIGHLY gear-dependant.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LazyNip &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If I were you I would actually pull 1 degree of timing in the area your tuning and do a run to see if you feel an increase in power. If you do then pull another degree of timing out. Keep taking timing out until power seems to lvl off or drop. Then add .5 of a degree of timing and it should feel better. Add another .5 degree of timing and compare with the pervious run. Go with whatever run pulls hardest and smoothest. If you're uncertain, figure out the area where you get the best power and pull .5 of a degree to give a margin of safety.

In case where you pull timing and power decreses. Put that 1 degree of timing back in. Then up the timing only .25 or .5 at a time. Running timing too advance could destroy a motor rather quickly. Always remember to keep an eye on your AFR's. Making adjustments to timing could sometimes affect AFR and create a lean condition.

goood luck </TD></TR></TABLE>

Not doubting your approach....please explain the reason for retarding. Strangely, a few years ago, on an old N/A carburated 85 civic I had, extremely retarded timing gave me exelent performance on top end at the track, actually comming from behind in each race and passing my opponents. The car was extemely slugish on low end. I never understood this.

 

Well, whenever you start a tune you don't know where you want the timing to be. If the timing is way too advanced already, then adding 1 degree of timing could blow your motor on the very next run. It would be safer to pull 1 degree of timing and see if you gain power. If you do then the timing was too advanced. If you lose power, you know the motor wants more timing, but you don't risk hurting your motor.

I'm not as experienced as a lot of tuners on this board so I'm just sharing what I've learned from my experiences. My approach to tuning is always to run everything on the safer side because a little mistake could cost a $5000 motor. The only real way to see if a certain amount of timing is correct or not is to tune the car on a Dyno Capable of holding load (IE: dynopack, mustang dyno) and not on an inertia dyno like the piece of junk Dynojets. I've heard there are newer modles of the Dynojet that could hold load, but I'm not too sure whats up with those. I'm not rich enough to be playing with various dynos so I don't really look into them.

93turbo16: Really? I didn't know that. It crossed my mind once, but I never looked into it. Thats really interesting. Could perhaps provide some more details or links to explainations regarding that discovery? I'm always hoping to learn more.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LazyNip &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
93turbo16: Really? I didn't know that. It crossed my mind once, but I never looked into it. Thats really interesting. Could perhaps provide some more details or links to explainations regarding that discovery? I'm always hoping to learn more.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Check out pgmfi.org... it is very evident if you compare a tuned AEM or standalone tune to a chipped rom tune..