Barry White Wagon

Hey guys, think I decided on the kit I want to run on my Accord. It seems to have a bunch of good parts at a hell of a price.

The only thing that I'm questioning is the manifold.



It appears that the wastegate port is only on one runner, or is it two? I can't really tell by the picture. I'd like one where all four cylinders have access to the wastegate, I guess I can replace this piece and use the rest of the kit? What do you think?

TypeSLO

i wouldn't buy that manifold. worst wastegate placement i've ever seen.

HamiltonRex

what are the spec's on the turbo that come with the kit... and what kind of power do you plan to make. If its a larger turbo you might have some trouble controlling low boost.

However.. I have installed a manifold like this on a srt4 with a upgraded turbo (just a 50trim), and it has no problems controlling lower boost pressures (14psi), and its the same style.

Goodluck.

Barry White Wagon

The turbo is a Turbonetics T3/T4. Doesn't list any trim info but I believe you have a choice of a few.

A user on here running the kit on an F22 has a Turbonetics T3/T4 Turbo V trim stage 2 .48 A/R 51 Lbs/min @ 6psi is making 197hp@ 5191rpm on a mildly built motor, so I'm hoping for similar numbers in the range of 10psi or so. He too is running the Treadstone cast manifold.

Adriano

Those manifold will work for something up to 400-450whp before they become a restriction. My buddy had one of those with a 60-1 turbo h22 built and made 525whp and went 11.1 @ 12X in a full weight prelude.

Adriano

chimmike

well, if you get it, don't waste your time on any stage 2 t3/t4. I'd say a .57 or .60 trim stage 3 t3/t4 ought to work well for you.

nsxmatt

It's basicly like a old Drag or Revhard kit with the Turbonetics turbo and manifold. It will work fine for your application.

Rob03Pro5

The manifold will work just fine. As someone had mentioned - it will only become a restriction once you get into the 400+whp area.

An don't listen to what someone had said about "wasting time" with whatever turbo you had in mind. Choose your own turbo for your own goals. People on this board always recommend the same turbo (57trim or 60trim with a Stage 3 wheel) because it came with every freakin kit back in the day.

Longitudinal

Looks good to me. That wastegate placement really won't hurt you. It's a log manifold, so the WG will be able to vent gas pressure from all cylinders, not just the one at the end--although the #4 cylinder (I think that's the #4 on a Honda, not positive so don't flame) will definitely flow best through the WG.

I :hrt: cast iron EMs wherever applicable. If there's a cast iron EM available that suits your power goal, buy it!

chimmike

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rob03Pro5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The manifold will work just fine. As someone had mentioned - it will only become a restriction once you get into the 400+whp area.

An don't listen to what someone had said about "wasting time" with whatever turbo you had in mind. Choose your own turbo for your own goals. People on this board always recommend the same turbo (57trim or 60trim with a Stage 3 wheel) because it came with every freakin kit back in the day.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Have you ever heard of ANYONE running a stage 2 t3/t4? I didn't even know they existed.

Seriously. It's a waste running a t3/t4 and making only 197whp. You could run a friggin t25 getting faster spool and make that power. Run a t28 and make 250whp, with still faster spool than a t3/t4. But if you're going to run a t3/t4, might as well run one that has the capability to make decent power in the future.

Rob03Pro5

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chimmike &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Have you ever heard of ANYONE running a stage 2 t3/t4? I didn't even know they existed.

Seriously. It's a waste running a t3/t4 and making only 197whp. You could run a friggin t25 getting faster spool and make that power. Run a t28 and make 250whp, with still faster spool than a t3/t4. But if you're going to run a t3/t4, might as well run one that has the capability to make decent power in the future.</TD></TR></TABLE>

All this talk about spool, then why did you recommend a 57 or 60 trim T3/T4?

His application is an Accord motor.. it doesn't flow nearly as efficiently as a B-series.. so why put something that will lag more? Maybe he wants a small T3/T4 because he wants more power (from larger compressor) and quicker spool (from the smaller exhaust wheel). There's nothing wrong with a Stage 2 wheel..

Yes a T25 will be faster spooling, but won't push out as much CFM as any T3/T4 - so most likely he's not looking for that. A GT28 is going to cost over $1k - maybe he's looking for something more affordable.

The point is - I'm sure the knows what his goals are.. so instead of just suggesting the normal 57 or 60 trim, at least ask him first what he wants.

Barry White Wagon

The original plan was to piece together a setup using a T28 as the turbo, but I have the money to buy a kit right now and figured I'd just go all out and do it that way. When I saw the Treadstone kit, I figured I'd take the hit of slower spool for what looks like a well put together kit. 200hp would be nice, 250hp would be nicer, but the car has to be easily daily driveable.

Had I gone the T28 route, I would not go with a GT28, the slightly quicker spool time is not worth the $800 or so over a used journal bearing, plus they're rebuildable

nsxmatt

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rob03Pro5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

His application is an Accord motor.. it doesn't flow nearly as efficiently as a B-series.. so why put something that will lag more? </TD></TR></TABLE>

It's a larger motor, a 2.2 with more displacement will spool just fine.

Barry White Wagon

I'm not sure what turbo the kit comes with, or if they give you an option. My assumption is the kit priced at $1799 will come with the 50 trim T3/T4.

http://www.treadstoneperforman...2+.48

Not sure though, the next step is to give these guys a call and price something. Well, I guess the next step is to compression test to make sure I can do it all on this motor. For a fun, torquey street car, what trim would you guys recommend?

Rob03Pro5

That's a great turbo for your motor..

Just for reference,

That's the same turbo I'll have on my 2.4L scion motor.. redlines only at 6500rpm.

This turbo has been known to make about 260whp on my motor at around 8psi.

Barry White Wagon

Are you referring to the one I linked? Do you think the extra $200 is worth the upgrade to BB?

Rob03Pro5

Yes that one.. the one my turbo kit comes with.

T04E/T3 50trim .48 AR Stage 2 wheel.

Mine does come ball-bearing.. but that was included in my Turbonetics kit.

I'm not sure if the $200 would be worth it for you.. you'll spool probably 500rpm quicker.

If you DO go for the BB option, just make sure they give you the NEW revision - which comes with a wet center housing.

Barry White Wagon

From their site:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All turbos come with dry bearing housings, all water-cooled turbos are specially ordered, please email for more info. Note: Ball bearig turbos are not instock. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Hmm, I was under the impression that they were dual cooled? I wonder how much the special order on wet would cost? Looks like they don't offer the ball bearing anyways at this point...

Rob03Pro5

It shouldn't cost any more.. you gotta argue for it.

Turbonetics has replaced their BB turbos dry housings with wet ones because they were going through turbo seals like crazy.

Oh I forgot to mention - I've heard that Treadstone's customer service isn't very good.. so you might have to argue a bit.

sixfiveoh

Figured I might as well ask while I have you guys in here, what injectors would you run with this setup? I was thinking a set of 450cc for starters, and increase as needed, but I think that's a good place to start, no? Any good companies or advertisers you can recommend for injectors? Also, will I need to upgrade the fuel pump as well, or will my OEM one provide enough flow?

Edit: Oops, wrong screen name. I've been posting for Barry re: his setup

.dave

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sixfiveoh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Figured I might as well ask while I have you guys in here, what injectors would you run with this setup? I was thinking a set of 450cc for starters, and increase as needed, but I think that's a good place to start, no? Any good companies or advertisers you can recommend for injectors? Also, will I need to upgrade the fuel pump as well, or will my OEM one provide enough flow?

Edit: Oops, wrong screen name. I've been posting for Barry re: his setup </TD></TR></TABLE>

Walbro 255 lph fuel pump.

As far as injectors go, use a calculator like the one on RC Engineerings website and determine what size you need based on a reasonable guess of how much power you're looking to make. There's tons of good injectors out there, check either the classifieds or the vendor marketplace on here.

sixfiveoh

Hey cool little thing they got there.

http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx

I put in some info, but didn't know what to put for system fuel pressure @ fuel rail so I left it with the default value and out popped 496cc/min. Sound reasonable for 250bhp? Don't plan on making 250 right away, but it's a goal down the road, the bigger injectors can run at a lower duty cycle if my goal is initially lower bhp, correct?

.dave

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sixfiveoh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey cool little thing they got there.

http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx

I put in some info, but didn't know what to put for system fuel pressure @ fuel rail so I left it with the default value and out popped 496cc/min. Sound reasonable for 250bhp? Don't plan on making 250 right away, but it's a goal down the road, the bigger injectors can run at a lower duty cycle if my goal is initially lower bhp, correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>

DSM 450s should be fine if you only want to make 250, and you can pick them up really cheap.

sixfiveoh

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .dave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">DSM 450s should be fine if you only want to make 250, and you can pick them up really cheap. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thank you sir! Found a set local for 50 bucks!