Licensed2Spool

The more I read about this, the more confused I get. Im building my engine, and Im not worried about tuning as much as I am worried about ignition timing. For me to spend all that money only to have it break because of ignition timing would be a disaster. Now, I know a lot of you use the msd boost retard controller. I want to know if that has been successful. What other setups are people using successfully and what setups flat out dont work. Im hoping this thread will go at least 3 pages...I know a lot of people who are just as interested in this topic as I am. Im looking for the ideal setup; one that will be refered to as the "h/t ignition setup" from now on because of how reliable it is.

93LSivic

Ideal timing controller isnt going to be an MSD type box. Ideal is going to be some type of standalone engine management.
Why only be worried about timing? You can blow you motor by running superconservative on the timing and leaning out on your afr.
You need to look at the big picture man.

Licensed2Spool

What I ment is that Im not affraid of tuning. I know what needs to be done in the air/fuel world. Its the timing part that worries me because you hear about people that were tuned perfect yet blew a piston because of timing problems.

boosted hybrid

Tuning encompasses timing as well as air/fuel. Air/fuel is only part of the final equation to get a conservative tune on an engine. Too little timing will cause detonation, to much timing will cause detonation. As far as tuning timing goes I try to shoot for the following:

1. Off boost keep timing 38-42 degrees advanced. This is where stock is, and provides the best burn/throttle response off boost.

2. In boost I shoot for .5 degrees retarded per pound of boost on pump gas. .25 degrees per pound of boost retard with race gas.

Every engine is different. When you are tuning on the dyno (the only place you can tune timing maps) you need to watch the horsepower/torque curves with the timing changes. If you are increasing timing, but there arent any gains you are increasing cylinder pressures greatly at the expense of 3-5 horsepower. .5 degree per pound of boost is just an estimate, or guide. Knowing what to look for out of the engine's response is the tricky part to tuning.

slowsi00

damn....

so you can be rich as hell and have retarded timing and still blow your **** sky high??

boosted hybrid

Its only in the extreme case.

Licensed2Spool

Thats what Im saying...Im fairly concerned now that Im going to be running more boost. No one tunes Hondatas around here or Id have one. The local shop does tune aem's standalone, but I dont have $900 to spend on one right now. So using a v-afc and stock ecu...what should I do with timing to insure that I dont blow???

boosted hybrid

Retard the distributor manually. Kick back the static timing (at the distributor) 2-3 degree's. That will guarentee that you are fairly conservative in the upper rpm band.

Licensed2Spool

Thats my plan as of right now.

b16ahybrid

I'm running a crane TRC-1 with map sensor. it's working working wonderful for me. The timing marks aren't accurate (you have to guestimate where 1 degree,2 degree,etc) I have it set just before 1 degree per psi. I started with it set at 0 degree per psi then slowly turned it until the detonation went away (about .5 degree) then i added a little bit for a safety measure.
I feel safe runing the car to redline now and i like the fact i can run stock timing...
It's the best $65 i've spent so far.....peace of mind is priceless

danl

Proper ignition timing has a lot to do with the cylinder pressures and octane of the fuel your are using. Basically anything affecting the burn rate of the mixture is going to effect ignition timing. You'll notice that low compressin engines need more ignition timing to run well, because the burn rate is so long you have to start it a lot earlier. Whereas a high compression engine will need less ignition timing as the burn rate is much faster. WHen you run race gas, the burn rate is much slower and you can run more timing advance. WHen the fuel has less time to burn (IE higher rpm's) you have to run a few more degrees of timing advance.

What I would suggest is that you guys try to mimick the timing curve of a factory turbocharged car. I see a lot of setups and have looked at a few hondata timing maps and one thing I see with sucessfully tuned cars is that it is pretty much the same as my car is at WOT.

My car typically starts at 15 degrees of total timing advance at 3000rpm's under boost and ends up at 20-22 degrees of timing advance at 6000rpm's under boost. If the car senses pinging it can pull enough timing out so that their is 0 degrees advance. This tends to make the turbo glow .

You should download the free hondadata rom editer software and look at the timing maps for the boosted gsr. They are very conseritive IMO because it is a higher compression engine. If you run lower compression you can add a few more degrees advace across the board.

If you have access to the timing maps of your car use them. Figure out what maps your car is "looking at" when you are at full boost and figure out a way to make your timing fall into the windows outlined above.

Oh ya, a J&S safegaurd is a good purchase