T58? T61?
02-09-2004, 05:52 AM
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T58? T61?
There are SO many post on here about turbo size....almost TOO damn many. But there are a couple turbos I never read much about...namely teh T58 and T61.
Are these guys just too big or what? I mean, the T58 flow 59lb/min...which is less than the t3/60-1, at 61lb/min. So that means it's smaller...correct? Wouldn't that let me propler infer than spool time would be less? Am I that much of an N/A stunna that I am total lost? (probally the latter)
But, I'm at the junction of my cars life where I'm thinking about building the bottom end. I've allready made decent power N/A...still untuned...and will easily be over 200whp on stock head/bottom end. BUT, there is no way past the fact that boosted WILL make more HP, and with the same weight....ultimately lead to a faster car. I have a lot of close friends that will help me either way...J.Davis, MAX_CFM, Overblown-Teg, Blundar, etc... So getting the stuff done is no issue.
But, besides me rambling......back to the turbos. IF I do go boosted, would either of these turbos be good for a 400whp street/daily driver? Are they too big? If so...what do you suggest? AND NO...I'd rather NOT get an SC61. Don't really have a good reason as to why I don't want one....I just don't? Not hating...damn nice turbos....just...well...damnit, leave me alone
So yeah....T58....yay or nay? if nay, other turbo option please.
Are these guys just too big or what? I mean, the T58 flow 59lb/min...which is less than the t3/60-1, at 61lb/min. So that means it's smaller...correct? Wouldn't that let me propler infer than spool time would be less? Am I that much of an N/A stunna that I am total lost? (probally the latter)
But, I'm at the junction of my cars life where I'm thinking about building the bottom end. I've allready made decent power N/A...still untuned...and will easily be over 200whp on stock head/bottom end. BUT, there is no way past the fact that boosted WILL make more HP, and with the same weight....ultimately lead to a faster car. I have a lot of close friends that will help me either way...J.Davis, MAX_CFM, Overblown-Teg, Blundar, etc... So getting the stuff done is no issue.
But, besides me rambling......back to the turbos. IF I do go boosted, would either of these turbos be good for a 400whp street/daily driver? Are they too big? If so...what do you suggest? AND NO...I'd rather NOT get an SC61. Don't really have a good reason as to why I don't want one....I just don't? Not hating...damn nice turbos....just...well...damnit, leave me alone
So yeah....T58....yay or nay? if nay, other turbo option please.
02-09-2004, 06:22 AM
#2
Re: T58? T61? (ITRswapandslow)
No. Those are RACE only applications that do not make a good street/strip turbo for daily use. I don't recommend them in the slightest.
If you're so against the Precision line (Which is still Garrett Based). Why not go for Innovative or Turbonetics? If it's just because "everyone else has Precision, I want to be different," kind of opinion, who cares??!?!? If the **** works well, and is built well, then who's going to notice. It's not like you're wearing a T-Shirt that displays it. Garrett is Garrett...
Modified by TheShodan at 5:51 PM 2/9/2004
If you're so against the Precision line (Which is still Garrett Based). Why not go for Innovative or Turbonetics? If it's just because "everyone else has Precision, I want to be different," kind of opinion, who cares??!?!? If the **** works well, and is built well, then who's going to notice. It's not like you're wearing a T-Shirt that displays it. Garrett is Garrett...
Modified by TheShodan at 5:51 PM 2/9/2004
02-09-2004, 06:43 AM
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Re: T58? T61? (TheShodan)
nothing against precision....i allready said that. the SC61 is just not what i'm looking for.
and what makes the t58 or t61 and all out race turbo, when it pushes less air than a t3/60-1? do you actually know, or are you just saying what you "think" or what you "read somewhere on the internet?"
I'm looking for facts, or at least words from someone I would consider intelligent. Not just some stunna busting out words that have no backing. If i wanted that, clubsi is just a click away.
and what makes the t58 or t61 and all out race turbo, when it pushes less air than a t3/60-1? do you actually know, or are you just saying what you "think" or what you "read somewhere on the internet?"
I'm looking for facts, or at least words from someone I would consider intelligent. Not just some stunna busting out words that have no backing. If i wanted that, clubsi is just a click away.
02-09-2004, 08:32 AM
#4
Hey Hey Hey.... No need for that, son...
Perhaps my response was bit unclear to you, but certainly not necessary to insult my intelligence. I was just trying to respond to your question in kind. If these are the kind of reactions your going to give for any critique, no problem I'll go elsewhere and you can find the info on your own..It don't phase me a bit.
With that being said.. Based on the turbos that I've tested in 3 facilities w/ a both a T51R, T61, and T70, We found that the reason why most of these are not practical on the street is due to the amount of air flow needed based on the volumetric efficiency of the motor. Unless the motor was fully built, (and even that was a stretch), we found that for PRACTICAL Daily use, volumetric efficiency of the engine to spool the turbo came in too late, especially when it came to acceleration and late braking on the street. These large turbos are much more designed and utilized for Drag racing, in which the car is not designed to stop its increase in boost over the length of the track. In that circumstance, the logic of "Bigger is Better" is a bit more sound. But in the case of using it in the street, or even the freeway, It's a lot like using a large turbo on a road circuit course. Sure you get power on the straightaway, but in a turn or coming out of an apex, the delay to get the exhaust gases pushed out fast enough to spool the turbine would be so long, it'd take you a whole lap just to catch up..
Perhaps maybe even this explaination is a bit too complicated for ya..... Stunna
Stop watchin' so much MTV..
Modified by TheShodan at 5:53 PM 2/9/2004
Modified by TheShodan at 6:43 PM 2/9/2004
Perhaps my response was bit unclear to you, but certainly not necessary to insult my intelligence. I was just trying to respond to your question in kind. If these are the kind of reactions your going to give for any critique, no problem I'll go elsewhere and you can find the info on your own..It don't phase me a bit.
With that being said.. Based on the turbos that I've tested in 3 facilities w/ a both a T51R, T61, and T70, We found that the reason why most of these are not practical on the street is due to the amount of air flow needed based on the volumetric efficiency of the motor. Unless the motor was fully built, (and even that was a stretch), we found that for PRACTICAL Daily use, volumetric efficiency of the engine to spool the turbo came in too late, especially when it came to acceleration and late braking on the street. These large turbos are much more designed and utilized for Drag racing, in which the car is not designed to stop its increase in boost over the length of the track. In that circumstance, the logic of "Bigger is Better" is a bit more sound. But in the case of using it in the street, or even the freeway, It's a lot like using a large turbo on a road circuit course. Sure you get power on the straightaway, but in a turn or coming out of an apex, the delay to get the exhaust gases pushed out fast enough to spool the turbine would be so long, it'd take you a whole lap just to catch up..
Perhaps maybe even this explaination is a bit too complicated for ya..... Stunna
Stop watchin' so much MTV..
Modified by TheShodan at 5:53 PM 2/9/2004
Modified by TheShodan at 6:43 PM 2/9/2004
02-09-2004, 08:44 AM
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Re: T58? T61? (ITRswapandslow)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITRswapandslow »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm looking for facts, or at least words from someone I would consider intelligent. Not just some stunna busting out words that have no backing. If i wanted that, clubsi is just a click away.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well if you dont like peoples advice on here when they make perfect sense then maybe you should go to clubsi (probablly be more welcome)....All he stated was that they are race turbos and just not a good choice for the street and that precision builds streetable/race turbos as do many other companies....If ya dont want precision try turbonetics or just go off the shelf garrett like a t3/t4 50-60 trim but they all rely on garrett parts so not really any difference they all would make good streetable power, u can look at cheapturbo.com they have a vast selection of good streetable turbos with great prices....but hey what do i kno i only run a t3 60 trim on a sohc, im just a wittle guy...Get yur T series and have fun, since you cant handle the truth!!
Well if you dont like peoples advice on here when they make perfect sense then maybe you should go to clubsi (probablly be more welcome)....All he stated was that they are race turbos and just not a good choice for the street and that precision builds streetable/race turbos as do many other companies....If ya dont want precision try turbonetics or just go off the shelf garrett like a t3/t4 50-60 trim but they all rely on garrett parts so not really any difference they all would make good streetable power, u can look at cheapturbo.com they have a vast selection of good streetable turbos with great prices....but hey what do i kno i only run a t3 60 trim on a sohc, im just a wittle guy...Get yur T series and have fun, since you cant handle the truth!!
02-09-2004, 09:51 AM
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Re: (TheShodan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheShodan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Perhaps maybe even this explaination is a bit too complicated for ya..... Stunna </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yep, Rob has the attention span of a gnat. I told his stunna *** that T3/4E would suffice for his weaksauce streetcar needs, yet he goes off and asks about being like Hector and putting three T88's on his Civic. BTW, his stunna 191 whp untuned in his sig is a bit of a lie... it's a generic GSR-based tune, because as we all know nothing Type-R is worth a **** for making power.
Yep, Rob has the attention span of a gnat. I told his stunna *** that T3/4E would suffice for his weaksauce streetcar needs, yet he goes off and asks about being like Hector and putting three T88's on his Civic. BTW, his stunna 191 whp untuned in his sig is a bit of a lie... it's a generic GSR-based tune, because as we all know nothing Type-R is worth a **** for making power.
02-09-2004, 11:25 AM
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Re: (J. Davis)
rob....... do a search for the disco potato gt28rs.. thats the one you need
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=750489
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=750489
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02-09-2004, 11:58 AM
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Re: T58? T61? (ITRswapandslow)
1st off, I want to say that im proud to see someone who doesn't want to follow the crowd, or in H-T's case the "bandwagon." Its cool to see that there are people who still wanna think on their own and try new things.
With that said im going to try to explain why you don't really want the turbos mentioned above. T58 and T61 are T series technology. This stuff is good, and it works well, but there is new stuff out now that is much much better...
What I am talking about is the Garrett GT line up. The GT40 56 trim wheel that garrett offers is the closest replacement for the T series T61 wheel. They both have a 61mm inducer, but the GT40 56 trim flows more volume of air, can support more boost, spools faster, and is more efficient.... Basically that means its going to kick in sooner, get you out in front faster, pull harder all the way to redline, allow you to make power higher in the rpm's, make more power w/ less boost, make more torque w/ less boost, allow you to run higher boost pressures, and also create cooler intake temperatures....
All that and you would think this all comes w/ some crazy price tag over the old T series wheel designs? right? well yeh kind of, Garrett GT series stuff is pretty expensive when you buy it in ball bearing configuration through garrett. but also wrong cause you can get these same GT series compressor wheels in non-ballbearing configuration through Precision turbo(High performance garrett turbos) at the same price as the old T, E, and B family turbos.
I hate to push the precision/garrett stuff so hard on you right after you say you don't want it but there is a really good reason why this stuff is becoming so popular now and for a long time.
If you look at the #'s, the SC61/PT61 can do everything the T58/T61 can do but better. If you still want to be different and get something a little more streetable then you might want to look into the GT3035 or GT3037 non-ball bearing.. Problem is these turbos might not have enough flow to make 400whp on pumped gasoline, so you might be stuck w/ the SC61/GT35e(gt3540) after all...
As for the GT2835 mentioned above, its too restrictive on the exhaust side for 400whp on the street/daily driven. You will have to push that turbo well into the race gas zone to make that much power.
With that said im going to try to explain why you don't really want the turbos mentioned above. T58 and T61 are T series technology. This stuff is good, and it works well, but there is new stuff out now that is much much better...
What I am talking about is the Garrett GT line up. The GT40 56 trim wheel that garrett offers is the closest replacement for the T series T61 wheel. They both have a 61mm inducer, but the GT40 56 trim flows more volume of air, can support more boost, spools faster, and is more efficient.... Basically that means its going to kick in sooner, get you out in front faster, pull harder all the way to redline, allow you to make power higher in the rpm's, make more power w/ less boost, make more torque w/ less boost, allow you to run higher boost pressures, and also create cooler intake temperatures....
All that and you would think this all comes w/ some crazy price tag over the old T series wheel designs? right? well yeh kind of, Garrett GT series stuff is pretty expensive when you buy it in ball bearing configuration through garrett. but also wrong cause you can get these same GT series compressor wheels in non-ballbearing configuration through Precision turbo(High performance garrett turbos) at the same price as the old T, E, and B family turbos.
I hate to push the precision/garrett stuff so hard on you right after you say you don't want it but there is a really good reason why this stuff is becoming so popular now and for a long time.
If you look at the #'s, the SC61/PT61 can do everything the T58/T61 can do but better. If you still want to be different and get something a little more streetable then you might want to look into the GT3035 or GT3037 non-ball bearing.. Problem is these turbos might not have enough flow to make 400whp on pumped gasoline, so you might be stuck w/ the SC61/GT35e(gt3540) after all...
As for the GT2835 mentioned above, its too restrictive on the exhaust side for 400whp on the street/daily driven. You will have to push that turbo well into the race gas zone to make that much power.
02-09-2004, 10:47 PM
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Re: T58? T61? (DIRep972)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DIRep972 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1st off, I want to say that im proud to see someone who doesn't want to follow the crowd, or in H-T's case the "bandwagon." Its cool to see that there are people who still wanna think on their own and try new things.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks.
Thanks.
02-10-2004, 01:17 PM
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the dick potato is just the newest ******* bandwagon...god H-T annoys me sometiems.
but one of the main reasons I'm wanting to avoid the SC61...go to the classifieds....there are so many SC turbos for sale..it's not even funny. Why are all these ppl selling their turbos? If they're so great...why aren't they all sold? It just makes me think is all....
but one of the main reasons I'm wanting to avoid the SC61...go to the classifieds....there are so many SC turbos for sale..it's not even funny. Why are all these ppl selling their turbos? If they're so great...why aren't they all sold? It just makes me think is all....
02-10-2004, 02:10 PM
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Re: (ITRswapandslow)
They're was a big christmas deal where you could get a SC61 for $650 shipped brand new. I think a bunch of people bought them for the deal, then realized they didn't even need a turbo.
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