bathroom scales does the trick!

 

Ok, I might be saved ... I managed to find a place on Monday around 86 miles away from me who said they can do and have done such jobs on Honda blocks before. Dropped it on Monday evening, workshop calls me on Tuesday morning and says can take 8 to 10 hours machining at a rate of £40 per hour plus tax. I say ok and get ahead with the job. Then they call me again this morning to say it actually done and ready. however they said on the side where the timing belt tensionor there is now a small hole due to over boring the block it self that needs filling.

Anyone experience this with bored and sleeved block? The guy said he can fill it for me, but he needs to find out 1st what fits in there but he suspects its the screw/bolts holind the belt tensionor.

The sleeves themselves got bored according to the SRP .25 oversize pistons spec and clearance as on the insturctions, but the question, if running very high boost will the pistons sezie and if so should I increase the clearance or will be ok by the cleareanse it came with?

 

Honestly id get a new block and start over....Hopefully the machine shop that did the install will take care of you.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1TurboHatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honestly id get a new block and start over....Hopefully the machine shop that did the install will take care of you.</TD></TR></TABLE>

But there is not gaurantee that the same thing won't happen with a newert block, specificly they took out enough to fit the darton sleeves in ..

I should pick up the block on Monday/Tuesday and then after close inspection will be able to tell what can be done ..

 

If they just bored the sleeves out, they still need to be honed. You need to have the 60 degree cross-hatching or the rings won't seat (break-in) properly. I'd also suggest a larger than recommended gap with the SRP's. They use an alloy that expands a bit more than other pistons with heat, and if you're running 400+ whp, you want a least .0035" clearance, .0040-50" if its a race-only motor that will be trailored. You also have to have the block/sleeves decked to make it perfectly even.

You should also ask them if they chamfered the holes that the sleeves fit in. The sleeves sometimes sit too high due to the step in them hitting that square ridge. A smart machinist would have done that for you.

Make sure to post pictures once you get the block back.

 

the small hole around the timing belt tensioner area is somewhat of a normal issue when installing MID sleeves in the block. every block is cast differently. when the block gets CNC cut for the MID sleeves in that area a hole may show up. i talked to my machinist who installed my sleeves and he said once and a while that will happen to some blocks. he usually seals that section with some epoxy to prevent coolant leaking.

 

I did spend good 20 minutes on the phone with him. I told him that I will be running 15-22psi average and I'm tempted to overbore the sleeves over the recommended clearance. He said its up to me but he doesn't think its necessary.

They already honed and finished the sleeves, its all basicelly ready to be put back together.

I'll be taking the head to them as I have asked for mild port and polish and maybe a 3 degree valve job. Once I pick the block I'll post pics .. I still have to clean the block exterior, use gizer followed by alloy wheel cleaner then gizer again, then prime and spray the thing in silver. Its already been hot tanked anyhow.

Need to come up with £470 notes ($935) by next week, worked out about the same cost getting done from the US.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If they just bored the sleeves out, they still need to be honed. You need to have the 60 degree cross-hatching or the rings won't seat (break-in) properly. I'd also suggest a larger than recommended gap with the SRP's. They use an alloy that expands a bit more than other pistons with heat, and if you're running 400+ whp, you want a least .0035" clearance, .0040-50" if its a race-only motor that will be trailored. You also have to have the block/sleeves decked to make it perfectly even.

You should also ask them if they chamfered the holes that the sleeves fit in. The sleeves sometimes sit too high due to the step in them hitting that square ridge. A smart machinist would have done that for you.

Make sure to post pictures once you get the block back.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Actually its cylinder pressure that has makes the difference. Too high from too much air in there (big turbo/high psi) and/or too much timing and max cylinder pressure goes through the roof, or rather - through the sleeves.

So as long as your IAT's stay down, you don't have any detonation/preignition, and don't melt a piston...the sleeves will take whatever you throw at them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yakuza &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> however they said on the side where the timing belt tensionor there is now a small hole due to over boring the block it self that needs filling.

Anyone experience this with bored and sleeved block? The guy said he can fill it for me, but he needs to find out 1st what fits in there but he suspects its the screw/bolts holind the belt tensionor.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Same thing happened when the machine shop installed my Dartons MIDs in my D16z6 block. The casting in that area is very thin. He filled it in and it should be good. Mike Laskey assembled my motor and said it should be fine.

 

1 why did you sleeve it for such a low power level?
2 why use crappy pistons in a sleeved block?

 

Who said I'm running low power? aiming at 400whp which is more than enough, already got another RWD car which aiming at 600whp on.

The SRP pistons came as part of a whole deal with Eagle rods and other parts. Contacted few sellers to get qoute on Arias but none has responded so I couldn't be bothered to chase anymore.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SwappedTURBOegg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1 why did you sleeve it for such a low power level?
2 why use crappy pistons in a sleeved block?</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

400 is especially LOW for a sleeved block.

a stock sleeve block with take that all day long and thats about the limit of those SRP pistons.

&lt;-- 500 stock sleeves all summer.

 

Whats your build up mate, im in the process of turboin me b16 and im low compin a b16 on the side, im from macclesfield so if the garage you used is any good i may be tempted to use them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Adamd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Whats your build up mate, im in the process of turboin me b16 and im low compin a b16 on the side, im from macclesfield so if the garage you used is any good i may be tempted to use them.</TD></TR></TABLE>


- SRP forged pistons 8:1 compression
- JE wrist pins and locks
- JE performance rings
- Eagle 4340 Steel H Beam rods with ARP bolts
- Skunk2 carbon composite fuel rail
- Skunk2 Turbo Stage 1 camshafts (Inatke 264/12.6 @ 1mm / 0.000" lash) (Exhaust 264/11.9 @ 1mm / 0.000" lash)
- Skunk2 stainless steel valves (standard size & standard compression)
- Skunk2 dual valve springs
- Skunk2 titanium retainers
- Skunk2 adjustable cam gears
- RC 750cc injectors (high impedance)
- Walbro 255 LPH high flow fuel pump
- Darton sleeves
- ARP head bolts
- ACT Prolight 8.8 lb flywheel
- ACT 408 lb/ft clutch
- Type R intake manifold
- Garrett T3/T4 57 Trim, 63A/R turbo
- Goodridge oil feed and return kit
- pfabrication custom B16 manifold log
- Skunk2 rear adjustable camber kit
- Skunk2 front adjustable classic camber kit
- Skunk2 Pro coilover suspension
- Skunk2 lower control arms
- Mishimoto aluminum radiator
- Mishimoto 10" slim fan
- Mishimoto coolant pipe
- Mishimoto G-line front mount intercooler (black)

I still need to sort th e ECU (haven't deciced either Hondata S300 or Apexi FC + Commander), BOV and wastegate (most likely be Tial) and some other bits and bobs.

If you want to come down, I can take you to my mechanic sometime ..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Wonderfull &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


I dont agree... if youre saying that why you run a larger Pto wall clearance. Simply not the case. Cyl pressure doesnt heat pistons like the combustion process (it causes heat no doubt, but nowhere near that of a power cycle), going lean or timing... POWER (ie read HEAT) is whats going to expletive up the walls with too tight of clearance... I learned the hard way.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hi Profile misunderstood your post....

I also agree on the extra piston to wall clearance.

OP: yakuza

you should check out the carnage from Mr Wonderfull last build, i think the extra clearence is very helpful.

put just a lil extra piston to wall clearence to be safe.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yakuza &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">- SRP forged pistons 8:1 compression</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why so low?? This isnt a DSM....


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Wonderfull &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> </TD></TR></TABLE>

looks like something got a little hot...what happened??

 

^^ that's a hard spot to be in though...i have to say, i would have sided with the piston manufacturer as well

 

I was saying cylinder pressure is whats going to crack the walls, while heat why you want to go with a looser piston. I just didn't clairify my post & who I was aiming it at.

 

seen too many pics like Mr Wonderfull posted and the only common factor being Piston to Wall clearence.

 

Mr Wonderfull

Ouch, that’s got to hurt; good of you to post up your experience, I’m sure that’s saved quite a few peoples builds.


Eddie

 

Well, its finally here ... My sleeved B16 block. And yes, the whole that the machinest spoke about is where the timing belt tensioner fits. Can be welded or filled with liquid metal and I have been recommended to use the later. Just got to clean the damn thing and then spray it in silver. The head is almost ready, just waiting for valve locks and valve seals to re-assemble. The whole thing should be ready to go together after xmas.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SwappedTURBOegg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">400 is especially LOW for a sleeved block.

a stock sleeve block with take that all day long and thats about the limit of those SRP pistons.

&lt;-- 500 stock sleeves all summer.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Depends upon his purpose. I'm only at about 430 on a sleeved block, but many sleeved "lower powered" applications are for those that road race. There's nothing wrong with a sleeved block for that extra insurance.. He's doing right the first time in case he changes his mind..

 

I thought I was the only one who went with a 8.8.1 compression piston.
but I went with wiseco 84mm in golden eagle sleeved b18a block.
good luck on the build, hope you reach your goal safely. I hope to get 500whp on my setup using the sc6152e

 

I decided to get the head skimmed by 0.5mm or 1mm to increase the compression ratio now. Getting it calculated at the momeont to determine how much need to be skimmed. I just realised after seeing many other people setups that 8:1 was too low.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by yakuza &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I decided to get the head skimmed by 0.5mm or 1mm to increase the compression ratio now. Getting it calculated at the momeont to determine how much need to be skimmed. I just realised after seeing many other people setups that 8:1 was too low.</TD></TR></TABLE>

screw that 8.1 is great, you live in england, I am pretty sure race gas is not redily available everyday. pump gas is all you have.

I am stationed in Germany, there is no race gas, a little higher octane than the states but nothing much.

for a street setup, 8.1 compression is safe. make up for the low compression with boost