Cparso

What is the most timing I should be running on my built H22?
Its set at 17 now and my AFR is in the 10.5-10.7 range Im running 8lbs of boost.Im going to try to dyno it in a week or so,but want it to be safe for now.. Here is the setup.Thanks for all your help.
Fully built H22

Darton DS200 sleeves
eagle rods
endyne rollerwave pistons 10.5-1
supertech full valvetrain (valves, springs, retainers)
Greddy Kev timing belt
ARP headstuds
auto-manual tensioner conversion
Golden Eagle polished intake manifold
golden eagle fuel rail
q45 90mm throttle body
CRP custom turbo manifold
3in downpipe
Full 3in Thermal Research exhaust
GT35R tbb charger with .82ar
Tial 38mm wastegate with 1 bar spring
HKS ssq bov
2 1/2 in lower charger pipes
3in intercooler to tb charger pipes
HUGE polished intercooler
polished C/R radiator
Blitz turbo timer
GM 3bar map
AEM EMS

miller

Find yourself a tuner and pay to have it done by a professional, i am not trying to be a dick but with your minimal amount of knowledge just by making a post like this, you are not ready to be tuning.

Cparso

So the car runs great ,AFR is more then safe,I just want to make sure timing is good,so I have no buisness tuning it huh...I was warned about this site...

Edit:I dont mean to be a dick,but I have tunned all my DSMs my self,and I understand how to tune,but I also know they are not the same,and thats why I wanted to know about the total timing,thats all I need to know...Whats safe timing wise?

MikeySpec

Its hard to give a solid answer to that question. There is no magic number.

Cparso

I have heard 20 is tops,but some say even more...I had it set at 19 at first,but dialed it back a bit when I heard 20 was max... It goes on the dyno later this week,so Ill find out for sure then..I was really just curious...Trying to get a few posts under my belt,see how the forum works.. Thanks

miller

A trained monkey can get a fuel curve right to be honest with you. You give yourself target a/f number and you press either increase or decrease. Like i said before if you dont know how to tell where timign should be you should hire a professional. You were warned about this site probably because people know what they are talking about and arent going to tell you to go ahead and run 30 degrees of timing and you go ahead and run with. But whatever, do as you wish.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

x2 you dont have any business tuning untill you've either taken classes or done your reaserch extensivly. its not something you just plug in and have fun with expecially sine it looks like you have alot of money involved.

IE your way rich just to start and timing is low. if you knew enough to be tuning you would know that to little timing is just as bad as to much timing. IMO get to a tuner or do more real research or take EFI 101 class to learn the basics befor eyou kill your investment

we arent trying to be dickss. were trying to tell you that it would be a shame to lose all that money you put into the setup over a tune that can be had for cheap on a street tune anyway and a few extra bucks for a well known tuner

Cparso

Thanks for the help.

Cparso

Thanks for your help also,I was just looking for a good starting point for the timing,didnt expect this kind of response...

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

well its good that you posted and got response that you did before killing the motor. If your going to tune on the dyno then i would start 1 degree per 1 psi boost from WOT is a good safe start and read the plugs after a pull that you add timing. also watch your power output and intake temps. try to get intake temps in same range and add timing will give you a better idea how much more power your making per degree of timing you add. if your not seeing good gains then there is no need to run more timing.

IE if at 20 degrees you are make 300whp and at 17 degrees your making 280 then stick to 280 at 17 degrees. but if your making 350whp at 20 and 280 at 17 then go with 20 but again read the plugs. if you dont know how to read the plugs then research it.


thats just a little info. tuning is much more involved then you think though. good safe a/f ratio is mid 11's that will keep you safe till you do some research and what not

sp00led

Take the hatch to trackmasters, Arthur is the best tuner we have in north alabama and he is quiet familar with AEM.

I wouldn't want to do much experimenting with a high compression turbo setup either.

The "self tuning" per "I blew my new motor" thread ratio is why you won't get much help in this section in regards to tuning.

sgnlab

Make sure you tell the AEM you have these it makes a big diffrence

HUGE polished intercooler
polished C/R radiator

hahahahah sorry I had to

SovXietday

Your timing is reaaaally low for 8psi. Also, AFRs are WAY rich. As a reference, I'm running ~13* and 11.5s at 18psi on my car, and it's a much smaller bore.

Safe, yes. Optimal, far from it.

These guys are right, you will want to look further into what timing you are running and why you are running it. Also, I don't know why you picked 10.5s as an AFR to run, must be from the DSM thing. 12.0 on the dot is the goal, especially on low boost like you are running right now.

To be honest with you, I've yet to run into the average "I tuned my DSM" person who actually knew wtf they were doing behind an EMS. No offense, just seems to be the norm in that scene.

Universal Magnetic

True story!

Cparso

Look,Im not tunning the car for max power or anything,guys....The tune that is setup on the car now is, mid 10s AFR,17* of timing... ALL I wanted to know is if this was safe,till I can get it dynoed.... Should have brought a flame suit in with me I guess..lol

I wasnt aware that asking a question would be frowned upon.Sorry guys.

Also,I wont be the one tunning the car on the dyno,Trackmasters will be doing the dyno tunning,I just want it safe until then.

Cparso

I copy and pasted from another thread on another board,didnt proof read it.Glad you got a kick out of it...

jarvis199

your afr's are also really safe... get the afr dialed to a nice 11.5:1 and then rent some dyno time and add a degree or two of timing till the car stops making power...

people on here act as if u must go to efi101 classes to be any good, which isnt true, it helps, and it helps a lot, but its hard to beat experience... its not like you are claiming to be a tuner and charging other people to tune there cars...


ur not gonna have a whole lota room for error iwth that kinda comp ratio... so take it slow, now that i look at it, 17* of timing was a good starting point lol... get the afr's up, theres no reason for it to be that rich... 11.5:1 is rich enough, get it there, and then start checking timing...

jsilva

Maybe if you didnt tell one of the more respected tuners on here that you know exactly what your doing because you tune dsm's then proceed to ignore the other knowledgable tuners in here when they gave you ideas and advice then this site wouldnt be so bad. We cant sit here on a computer and tell you what timing to run at x amount of boost etc only that you need to adjust it depending on may factors like ls-turbo mentioned.

Cparso

I didnt ignore anyones advice,I said I was able to add a degree or two of timing to the car,without taking any classes.I never said I knew exactly what I was doing or I wouldnt have made this thread. This was completely blown way out of control...

eg:R

what is a good a/f for WOT on a turbo car?

Cparso

Depends on the car... I ran arond 12ish on my DSMs,but my buddy runs low mid 10s on his Supra...

sgnlab

just busting your chops man! Be careful buddy

Cparso

thanks,I hate it that this thread came off the wrong way...I know everyone means well,and really I just want t o be safe with my engine..I really am thankfull for everyones help.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

I didnt even read that your running an AEM EMS. Good luck with that thing brother. What a nightmare to tune with especially for a first time honda tuning managment system. I didtched mine as soon as i could for a hondata s300. something comperable like neptune or ectune will do a excellent job as well. but seeing you already spent the loot on the ems be prepared to spend alot of time working on that thing. without knowledge of alot of tuning and of the ems its a nightmare IMO. Theres something like 8 or 9 different tables just for idle in that stupid software. drove me nuts personally LOL.


as for a/f yes definatly depends on setup and fuel etc. i personally tune my car for 12.4-12.6 on 93 octane but im also not running on ragged edge with timing IE at 16 psi on 93 octane im a pretty flat 12.4 a/f with about 13 degrees of timing without any issues but on other setups that could cause problems so its really way to many variables to give exact numbers