No. This motor is in a full body Integra GSR. It is a really nice daily driver. I cant wait to see what it puts down after Hondata. Right now it puts down 200whp with a stock head. It's far far far too lean, maxed out fuel pressures, injector duty cycle, every trick in the book. Now we're going with the Hondata and 440cc injectors. That'll take care of that.

 

on a non-rollerwave piston, are the carbon deposits distribusted evenly across the top of the piston?

Larry had described the rollerwave phenomenon as a wave that travelled across the top of the piston, apparently from one side to the other. Do you understand how the 'lips' on his pistons actually produce this during the combustion process?

If you really do understand how it works, could you please explain it?

Joe

 

normally, you'll see the entire top of the piston coated with residue. I wish I had taken a picture, it was odd to see it in such a way.

The lip is really easy to understand. Think of the combustion wave as a surfer going up a high wave that's nearly ready to break. He cannot overcome the top due to the curl. That's the same effect the rollerwave piston theoretically produces. This pushes the combustion wave back across the piston, allowing a more complete burn.

Thats about the best explanation I could come up with to put it in laymen's terms. Hope it was helpful

 

I have a pic of the RW burn pattern on the B20, I'll send to you to post.

 

The theory is simple, I think. If you put all the air and fuel into a small space around the spark plug, more is lighted and burned. Pushing more of the mixture to the exhaust side for burning is something they pioneered in V8s with nascar fords. If you look at any V8 racing head today, you can see the spark plug aimed at the exhaust side. According to the explanation on the web site, the trench on the exhaust side causes more area for the mixture to be concentrated on the exhaust side. If the sides of the piston are not carboned, then it's shape is putting more mixture into the center of the chamber.
Is the exhaust side of the dome more carboned than the intake side? This could tell a lot about the design's functions.
I also talked to Brian at Wiseco a while back and he told me that the tops of the Endyn pistons are their (Endyn) design and they are not at all like the pistons Wiseco sells.

 

i have the 12.5 comp rw's and a couple engine shops saw them and said they were really nice slugs esp the hand sanded tops, i know they are just weisco's, it said it on the box, but man i take a lot of heat when i tell most people what's in my motor damn it's just a piston.....idk about there other products though


[Modified by dohcsideSi, 12:24 AM 2/22/2002]

 

here is a pic of Sleeper's engine with the head pulled (I presume anyway) after some work. Note how the majority of the carbon deposits are located in the center of the piston, not extending beyond the valve pockets.

 

i think i've read in Drag Racer magazine that what you describe above isn't exactly a good thing. I think its the article with the new JE piston that features dimples on the piston tops.

I could possibly be wrong tho. One things for sure... the piston is obviously doing something... the run of the mill JE or Arias sure don't look like that after running it awhile.

 

why wouldnt you want to burn all the fuel/air mixture?

I should add that when we pulled the head on the one we built, it looked exactly the same.

 

how does having the majority of carbon deposit situated in the middle tell you that you're burning all the a/f mixture? i'm not trying to refute what you have to say but I honestly don't understand.

off of memory the article said that if any spot on the piston has more carbon deposits compared to elsewhere that means the mixture is burning unevenly. don't quote me tho cuz i might have remembered wrong.

 

I think the principle is sound. The more evenly you can keep the fuel dispersed in the mixture, the more thorough the burn, regardless of application. It takes motion(swirl) to keep these particles suspended as evenly as possible. It’s the shape of the piston top/quench area, that promotes the push to the exhaust side, and the reflector, to reflect that pressure wave back to the intake side, and when viewed from the side, resembles a rolling wave. Its obvious in the burn pattern pic. Motion is key to keeping the mixture homogenous, which increases burn efficiency and lessens the chance for detonation. Sharp edges invite detonation, so removing them from the combustion chamber is just common sense, floor(piston top) included.

 

I have no doubt that Larry has an immense amount of technical knowledge. However, after dealing with Larry for a year, I quickly learned that things are not what they seem. His company thrives on dealing with unsuspecting enthusiasts that fall into his arms. I am now convinced that he is the venus fly trap of the import industry. He preys on people that buy into his ideals and acts as though he is their friend. But the moment a problem arises, he turns his back on the situation and looks for the next victim. I spent over $10,000 with his one man operation and was left with nothing more than empty promises, and a motor that made less power than when the project started.

Here is my story, Orginally posted in July 2001 on Larry's BBS.

Up until this point, I have totally avoided any comments, reguardless of how frustrating it was. But with this post, I feel I must say something. I am sure this will probably be erased very soon.

For those of you who do not know me, let me give you a quick background. First off I am not some "young punk kid" trying to stir up a pot. I am 25+, married, own my own home, and work as a professional sales trainer. When I have a chance, I spend my weekends tinkering with my car, like most of you. I say this only to establish credibility. Please do not flame what I am about to tell you. I only hope to prevent others from what I have experienced, and nothing more.

In July of last year I contacted ENDYN about rebuilding my B18C1 from my Integra. I had spoken to many other engine builders, and was presently suprised to speak with TOO. He seemed very knowledgable about Honda's, and vehicles in general. He spoke of his involvement in NASCAR, among other racing orginizations. He spoke of his shop, and made reference to 40+ engine dyno's, some of which had motors on them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I was confident in his abilities, and decided that even though this was well over my preconcieved budget, I would go with his services.

On September 22nd, 2000, I drove the 12 hour trip to ENDYN's home base (out of respect, I
will not say where they are), with my best friend, and "crew chief" Jason. We arranged to meet with him at his house. I was a little curious as to why he would have me meet him at his house, but I had confidence at this point, so I did not let it concern me. We met on the morning of Saturday, the 23rd at approximatley 9am. I was "giddy as a school girl" to meet Larry. I was expecting to follow him to his shop, but instead he wanted me to offload the motor there at his house, stating they would load it into another truck later and take it to the shop. When I asked why we were not going to the shop, he stated "I do alot of top secret work for racing teams. As part of my agreement, I am not allowed to bring anyone to the shop, so that their privacy is protected". I was dissapointed, but understood the merit behind it. We went over the financials, he told me he expected to have the motor done by 10/31. I gave him a little over a 50% deposit, and after our fairly short (2 hour or so visit), my buddy and I were back on our way home.

Over the next month or so we stayed in contact about once a week. Towards the end of October it was becoming apparent that the motor would not be completed when scheduled. Although it was dissapointing, I was not upset. A week before Thanksgiving I recieved a phone call from TOO asking if he could keep it for a week or two longer to dyno tune the motor, and break it in for me. I excitedly agreed, although I was dissapointed that it would not be ready for several more weeks. Later that month TOO told me my motor did 319hp @ 7000 rpm. He wanted to tinker around and find his goal of around 350hp. I agreed, yet again to let him hang on to the motor.

Around the first week of December I was beginning to become frustrated, although I promised myself I would hold it inside because he seemed to be doing so much for me. Finally on December 13th, he called and said it was ready. Although he had not reached his goal of 350hp... He said he did reach 345hp, which he and I were happy with.

Rather than having the motor shipped (which would have taken about a week) I decided to drive back to ENDYN and make the 12 hour one way trip, this time with a different friend. We met with TOO on December 14th at about 1:00pm in the afternoon, once again at his house. When we arrived, the motor was already out front, crated and waiting on us.

Here is where things start to get uneasy. We talked for several minutes about different things here and there. TOO and I went inside the house so that I may pay the balance that was owed to him. To my surprise there were several items that were added to the motor that we had not agreed upon. In fact, one of which we never discussed. Period. The items totalled about $1200 more than I was expecting, on top of an already $7000+ remaining bill. I was very, very upset, although I did not express much of this to him. He claimed I told him to add them. Believe me when I say, I would remember
adding an additional $1200 to a bill.... Wouldn't you? Luckily I have a very understanding wife, and although she was quite displeased, I was between a rock and a hard place. I am 12hours from home, and it would have been a major project for the motor to be uncrated, and to remove certain items (Clutchmasters flywheel and Moroso oil pan). So I gave in, accepted the bill, and loaded up the motor for the drive home. Still very upset. We arrived back home on Friday, December 15th. That weekend my friends and I reinstalled the motor back into the car. Here it was, time for the cermonial "turning of the key". Remember how nervous you were? So was I. After a couple of tries, she fired up for about 3 seconds, at which point the timing belt flew off. My heart stopped. OMG! I was imagining bent valves, and other scary thoughts. I called TOO immediately. He gave
me a few quick tips. We slid the belt back on, checked for tension, and tried again. 5 seconds later, it slipped off again. Long story short, the motor ended up having an incorrect water pump. A water pump from an RS/LS motor to be exact. Apparently these have 3 less teeth on them, which would not allow the timing belt to tension properly. Although TOO did help diagnose the problem,
I was curious as to how this "slipped" (no pun intended) by him, especially considering that motor supposedly spent 10 hours on the engine dyno. When asked he stated he had decided to put a new timing belt and water pump on after it spent time on the dyno, and one of his shop flunkies must have put the wrong pump back on. He overnighted me another water pump. When it arrived, I placed it on the car. It began leaking immediatley after coolant was put in. I ended up going to Honda and buying a new one, even though the one I had originally put on the motor, only had about 6k miles on it. All told this ordeal took almost a month to overcome.

Once the water pump issue was fixed, we then had a HUGE driveability issue. The car was highly unreliable and would not maintain idle. After many phone sessions, TOO decided I needed to purchase a new FPR. I went with the Vortech SFMU, since he had the same one, thinking it would make our tuning sessions easier. After another month or so of tuning on the weeknds, it seemed we were getting nowhere. The car was sluggish. It was far slower than it was before, and much less reliable. We spent till March of this year tinkering with it on the weekends. TOO was
beginning to become less and less accesible, and semed more and more frustrated with me.

I decided that a phone conference was in order. I was respectful of how busy TOO was during theday, so I arranged a time, which he chose, on an evening were my best friend and I could discuss things together. I was prepared with very detailed notes about what we had done to the car, settings, etc. I also came prepared with any changes we had made, and their affect on the vehicles performance. While on the phone with TOO, I took copious notes. Making sure every detail was not missed. (Hey, it had been 4 months since I had the motor back... this was getting old). During this conversation he also spoke of his shop, yet again. He talked of how he spent so much time there, he had a room above in a loft with a shower so he would not have to make the drive home. He even went into details about how cold it was, and how he was so excited to have heat in there finally. We spoke of his ties with NASCAR, and the unfortunate Dale Earnhardt tragedy. He told stories of how much testing he has done over the years and how many of his dyno's run constantly for his research. Overall Jason and I spent well over an hour and a half with TOO on the phone.

We went back to the car and began looking in the areas TOO recommended. To my surprise we
found something we had not expected. My exhaust was a measly 1 7/8 in diameter. Not nearly sufficient enough for the 15lbs of boost we were running, TOO agreed.... Laughingly. I contacted him several weeks later to order a Thermal 3" exhaust from him. He quoted me a price, and stated that it would arrive in one week. The next Tuesday I phoned TOO to confirm the order. My best friend was going to schedule time off work to help, so I wanted to ensure it would arrive by Friday. Once again, he confirmed it. Something did not seem right, but I ignored it yet again.

On Thursday evening I decided I wanted my mother to stop by and make sure the exhaust was put in the garage, the last thing I needed was it to turn up missing. Rather than bother TOO, I decided to call Thermal to get the UPS tracking number. When I phoned them, they said they had no record of the order. In fact TOO had not ordered anyhting from them in quite a while. I was highly upset. He was obviously lying to me. I tried to phone him that evening, but here was never an answer.

The next day, I phoned several times until I finally got him about 1pm. I explained the situation VERY camly, and did not express that I was upset. I told him there must have been a mishap, and asked if he would phone them to straigten it out. He agreed.

Within 5 minutes he called back. He stated they had sent the exhaust to his address, and not mine. I found this odd as well, especially considering the gentleman at Thermal stated ENDYN had "not ordered anything from them in quite some time". But before I could reply, TOO stated that I "Had
broken the golden rule".... At first I thought he was joking. I laughingly replied.... "What golden rule is that?". TOO exclaimed "You sre to never call the manufacter!". I apoligized, and explained to
him I was unaware of this "rule". The only thing we had agreed upon was that I would not release pricing thaqt he had given me... which I had not.

At this point he turned ugly. He began swearing. "F*CK this! D@mn you that! You F*ucking kids in Honda's! I havent slept in 24 hours, I have restrictor plates that need to be ready for Talladega..." This continued for about 30-45 seconds. My wife was in my office at the time, and could hear everyword he was yelling. I said nothing. Not one word. Then CLICK. He hung up. My wife looked at my face, she could tell I was upset... and needless to say, so was she. I camly picked up the phone and called him back. I said TOO "I would really like to talk to you about
this". He started in again. Yelling obscenities, screaming hollering. Would not let me say a thing.

Finally I hung up. I was crushed at first. I had spent over $10k with this guy, and he does this. For what? Nothing. That was the last phone conversation I had with him.

So..... Where am I today? I have a car that is no better than it was before. It is sluggish. Even after $10k+. This is including the TOO supercharger modifications, to which I can tell no difference. The guy who built the motor claimed he has this huge shop with 40+ dyno's. Now he tells everyone "All Endyn engineering, testing, fabrication, and manufacturing has always been done in my house and it's been that way for 27 years. Any buildings that have "supposedly" housed Endyn facilities were and are purely figments of others imaginations." Well TOO... it's a figment because that is what you are telling people. I believed you, and now I feel like a fool. So where are all these dyno's? How aout the stories about NASCAR? How about the room you told us you built above the shop, just so you would not have to drive home?

If I had been told the truth up front, you would not see this post. I would not have cared that my motor was built in somebody's back yard. But I was lied to. Just like many others. I have spent $10k+ of my hard earned money, and was given a promise of a motor that had 345hp. To his date, I have yet to see that power.

If you feel you have been a victim of fraudulent representation you have many legal rights. See http://www.ifccfbi.gov

Thank you for your time.

 

oh ok....good....

because the motor/car i speak of was built in florida(i think by south florida performance). the bottom end was a b20b with endyne 12.5:1 rollerwaves.cyl head is a "hogged"out b16 head with an itr manifold(not spot faced)..skunk2 p28ecu......
the bottom end blew a hole in the front and back of the block on the #2 cyl.. 3 broken rods and #1 piston smacked off of the bottom of the head..all of the spark plugs were completely burnt up.......when we took the motor out of the car all of the bolts and stuff were completely too loose(almost hand tight). talk about shody work.

 

If the quench pads come close together, no carbon can collect on them. The piston isn't always at TDC either, so the whole cylinder is ultimately the chamber too because there's still fire at the exhaust port or header when the valve opens near BDC. I'm trying to think how that would cause the carbon to be, but it's hard to visualize.

 

And I'm gonna guess stock injectors too? B20's take a lot more fuel than the average B18 with the same compression