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Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6

Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6

 
Old 08-25-2018, 10:53 AM
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Default Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6

Hey guys I'm new to this forum I was wanting to see if y'all could help me with my car. So I have a 92 civic SI stock and I want to get it to 500hp if not at least close but I have no idea on where to even start or steps I need to take to get it there so if any one could help out I would greatly appreciate it.

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Old 08-25-2018, 03:57 PM
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Default re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6

Originally Posted by RobertoHdz View Post
Hey guys I'm new to this forum I was wanting to see if y'all could help me with my car. So I have a 92 civic SI stock and I want to get it to 500hp if not at least close but I have no idea on where to even start or steps I need to take to get it there so if any one could help out I would greatly appreciate it.
Welcome! 500-600 is my new goal. That kinda power from the Z6, you'll definitely want rods and pistons, arp head studs, t3/t4 that flows about 50-55 lbs/min, quite possibly 44mm or larger wastegate **shrug**, mini ram manifold, 255lph high pressure pump (mininum) (if using pump gas, I would NOT suggest lower than 93 octane). May want E85.. 1000cc injectors (for pump gas, 1200cc for E85), engine management, stage 4 or better clutch, may want to look into another intake manifold/throttle body combo; skunk2, edelbrock, etc.. Axles of you intend on ANY kind of launching at this level..
Is this for street? Track? Both?
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Old 08-25-2018, 04:30 PM
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Default re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6

What is your budget? Tell me how much money youíre willing to spend , and whether this will be a one off build or one that youíre trying to accomplish over time while keeping the car on the road, and Iíll tell you how to go about this.
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Old 08-25-2018, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: 500hp d16

Originally Posted by RobertoHdz View Post
Hey guys new to this forum, just wanted to see if I could get some help or advice on how I can get my 92 si to 500hp.
intake manifold
cam
valve springs
retainers
ARP headstuds
(cheap route) vitara pistons 8-8.5:1 compression will take lots of boost to make the power and will be laggy as dog ****.
(the right way) forged pistons in the 9.5:1-10:1 compression ballpark, will have great spool time and make plenty of power on less boost.
h-beam rods
id go with either a precision 5558 or a 5858 turbo
top mount manifold
44mm wastegate
1000cc injectors
walbro 450lph fuel pump
hondata s300 ecu
competition stage 5 clutch or twin disc.
Catch can breather setup is a must, if you donít do this your block will build crankcase pressure and wonít let the oil from the turbo drain properly and blow the seals right out of it.

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Old 08-25-2018, 07:18 PM
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Default re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6

Thanks guys for the help. Sorry im a bit new on the engine mod scene so I don't understand some of the lingo lol. What's a t3/t4, is that the turbo? And would e85 fuel be better? My budget for this is maybe like 4,000 or less, also this is my daily driver so until I get another car I cant be with out it too long and I dont plan on any track use .
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Old 08-25-2018, 07:35 PM
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Default Re: 500hp d16

Any idea on about how much this will cost?
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Old 08-25-2018, 08:04 PM
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Default re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6

You're not going to get 500HP out of a D series with a 4000 or less budget, especially not in a method that's reliable as your daily driver, and triple especially since you're new to engine modifications and presumably working intimately on cars.

My advice - Don't do it. Save up a bit more money, look on Craigslist and find another Honda that may already have a turbo on it. Ask for second opinions, buy that, use it as a learning platform, and go from there.

500WHP out of a D series will mandate sleeves, full engine rebuild with forged rods/pistons, upgraded valve springs and retainers. That alone will cost you over $2000 if you have a shop perform the labor for you. A proper turbo kit will cost at least $3000 on it's own, and that's not counting the other $800 you'll be spending on the fuel system (especially if going E85/flex fuel). AND, that's not counting the need to upgrade the clutch/pressure plate to hold the power. BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE, you'll also need a programmable ECU, such as Hondata S300 or Neptune, as well as paying a competent tuner to tune the engine for the new power and modifications.

These are mandatory, not options. You're simply not ready for this yet.
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Old 08-25-2018, 09:03 PM
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Default re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6

^^^
I second this guys response... He forgot to mention that youíd need some major brakes for stopping power to go along with your 500hp motor....

since youre new new at this, why donít you set a realistic power goal for your stock EG. like 170hp. This should be reachable with your budget.
do TONS of research and perform a basic tuneup and then upgrade your suspension to handle like a Honda should, then either start tackling a high compression or mild turbo build and enjoy.... the experience you will have gained will give you the reference needed to decide whether you really want a 500hp (dragstrip only) Honda Civic.

ps if this is a daily driver I suggest you get another motor to build so you can swap it in and get it running with no downtime.

Me personally, I would not recommend buying any ones turbo Honda Civic. Unless they wrote a manual to go along with all the modifications that theyíve done to the car, it could potentialy be a nightmare trying to reverse engineer what was done to the car in order to properly maintain it and/or add any more modifications
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Old 08-25-2018, 09:31 PM
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Default re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6

And hey, donít take our advice the wrong way, a 500hp daily driven, street legal civic is not impossible to build.... but itís just impossible for someone new to tuning to pull it off with only $4000. IF, and thatís a big IF, you were capable of doing ALL the work from turning wrenches to fabrication to tuning, and you didnít mind spending a couple years searching the internet religiously for all your needed parts to pop at great prices, then perhaps youíd be able to pull it off with $4k.... OR if you have cash in the neighborhood of $15,000 you might be able to have it built for you....

at the end of the day, Honda civics donít need GOBS of power to be quick and fun street cars. After driving your stock 115hp EG, a VERY simple stock B series swap will earn you 20-50 horses and put a smile on your face.
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Old 08-26-2018, 03:22 AM
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Default re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6

Originally Posted by RobertoHdz View Post
Thanks guys for the help. Sorry im a bit new on the engine mod scene so I don't understand some of the lingo lol. What's a t3/t4, is that the turbo? And would e85 fuel be better? My budget for this is maybe like 4,000 or less, also this is my daily driver so until I get another car I cant be with out it too long and I dont plan on any track use .
ChanceEG is correct.. You're going to need some moderate cash to see these numbers. Especially if your intentions are to keep it a daily driver. The build I've put together myself to make it in this ballpark is a tad under 5k, and that does not include all the parts that I'm carrying over from my current build. With a 4k budget, you can pull off an easily streetable and reliable 300-350whp, especially if you're doing the work yourself. With that, you won't need E85. That's doable on pump gas.
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Old 08-26-2018, 04:05 AM
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Default re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6

Best bet is try something like this and so you drive your daily until itís ready to swap over. Tune. Dd again. Save old motor as backup

find a z6 longblock $100-200
vitara pistons $100
custom length p2p0 rods $300-350
bearings whatever you want. Oem. King. acl $50-250
comp cam 59500/300 $200-400
delta 272-2/282-2 $200-300

get a eBay turbo piping kit $150 with bov kit
get a tial wg $100-250
getfull ramhorn or mini ramhorn if steet $200-400 used
get a eBay bov/or genuine if ya catch a good deal
find a used turbo for good price

comp clutch stage4-5+ or act/action $400
hondata s300 $300-500
1000cc $200-300
walbro 255 $80
tune$500

youll net 300-450whp depending on tuner and turbo

use that $4000. Buy used parts smartly which is wg/turbo/mani/ injectors /hondata s300v2 /maybe cam if good condition
the rest new



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Old 08-26-2018, 06:27 AM
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Default re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6

Originally Posted by RobertoHdz View Post
Thanks guys for the help. Sorry im a bit new on the engine mod scene so I don't understand some of the lingo lol. What's a t3/t4, is that the turbo? And would e85 fuel be better? My budget for this is maybe like 4,000 or less, also this is my daily driver so until I get another car I cant be with out it too long and I dont plan on any track use .
Roberto, please donít let anyone make you feel like itís going to be easy to slap together a turbo setup... I think the main question you have to ask yourself is ďam I going to tackle this project alone?Ē Or ďam I willing to pay someone to build this for meĒ. One person that you will HAVE to pay is a good machinist. Unless youíve got hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of machining equipment to work with...

in some of these responses Iím guessing that the posters are assuming you will do most of the work yourself.... Do you have the tools required to pull off this job? Thereís more $$$ to be spent right there.....you say youíre new to this, that means you will make some mistakes, itís inevitable. Thereís probably some more $$$ down the drain there.... txdragon and kingdee say youíll be able to net between 300-450 HP for $4k but honestly Iím not sure if itís realistic... I mean, you say your civic is stock....
there are things youíll need that werenít listed by any of these guys like a big brake upgrade kit. Another neglected area of tuning is the suspension. I mean, would you want to be pushing 300+ horses while riding at stock height? Youíll need $1000+ at least for just a decent coilover or Koni-GC setup. Once you lower it, more stress will be placed on all suspension components likely necessitating their replacement with newer parts. Iím talking about tie rods, wheel hubs, ball joints etc..... youíll need adjustable upper control Arms on the front and adjustable camber rods for the rear. Youíll need wider wheels and new tires to be able to put that power to the ground without burning rubber to get out of 1st gear. How about replacing the 20 something year old bushings on your civic? Wouldnít you like to have sway bars? How about various brace bars for further stiffening of the chassis. Youíll need a wide band o2 sensor and guages for a/f ratio, oil and fuel pressures, you need some beefy upgraded racing axles. New engine mounts. Youíll need adjustable cam gears. Youíd also probably want to upgrade the stock radiator to an all aluminum unit. If youíre boosting and you want the engine to hold up for years to come, you need new sleeves, possibly a block guard or cylinder posts. And youíll have to pay someone to install those. Also valve springs, retainers, guides etc... Youíll need all this AND the parts listed by the other guys to have a decent build that wonít ******* explode after a year of driving....

Please please please take advice from a guy whoís been there. Donít get into a project thatís over your head... youíll get burnt out, youíll lose interest and most of your money... take it slow and LEARN! Start by ďtuningĒ your suspension. Itíll make your car safer and more fun to drive... I donít want to sound like an ***, but If you donít know how forced induction, aka ďturboĒ works, then you have no business even thinking of installing one. Which is okay... just do a bunch of research... if you want to know who is the KING of d-series turbo builds, look to bisimoto. If you donít know who that is, you need to google some Honda tuning history so you can fully appreciate how this wonderful and unlikely underdog of a car brand became a powerhouse name in the auto performance world.... It all started with guys blowing up their engines with high compression 10k rpm builds, slapping together home made turbos, figuring **** out, and making the big mistakes, learning from them, and sharing the knowledge through the wonderful World Wide Web.. all that work was done so that we shouldnít have to experience the pain of building something that just doesnt work or something that breaks after a short while......

good luck and have fun!

Last edited by Free Man; 08-26-2018 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 08-26-2018, 08:03 AM
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Default re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6

Originally Posted by Free Man View Post


Roberto, please donít let anyone make you feel like itís going to be easy to slap together a turbo setup...


Nobody here said it's going to be.
Originally Posted by Free Man View Post
in some of these responses Iím guessing that the posters are assuming you will do most of the work yourself.... Do you have the tools required to pull off this job? Thereís more $$$ to be spent right there.....you say youíre new to this, that means you will make some mistakes, itís inevitable. Thereís probably some more $$$ down the drain there....
My assumption after the OP second post was he is in WAAYY over his head as of the original post but with proper guidance and knowledge, could be successful.
Originally Posted by Free Man View Post
txdragon and kingdee say youíll be able to net between 300-450 HP for $4k but honestly Iím not sure if itís realistic... I mean, you say your civic is stock....
I went from stock to 347whp in <4k.. It CAN be done.. Just gotta watch REALLY close what you get and from where..

Originally Posted by Free Man View Post
there are things youíll need that werenít listed by any of these guys like a big brake upgrade kit which would require a rear trailing arm disc conversion to even pull off.
Big brake kit is so unnecessary it's not even funny. Just make sure your brakes are in good working order. Good brake pads; Hawk, EBC, etc are good enough..

Originally Posted by Free Man View Post
Another neglected area of tuning is the suspension. I mean, would you want to be pushing 300+ horses while riding at stock height? Youíll need $1000+ at least for just a decent coilover or Koni-GC setup. Once you lower it, more stress will be placed on all suspension components likely necessitating their replacement with newer parts. Iím talking about tie rods, wheel hubs, ball joints etc..... youíll need adjustable upper control Arms on the front and adjustable camber rods for the rear. Youíll need wider wheels and new tires to be able to put that power to the ground without burning rubber to get out of 1st gear. How about replacing the 20 something year old bushings on your civic? Wouldnít you like to have sway bars? How about various brace bars for further stiffening of the chassis. Youíll need a wide band o2 sensor and guages for a/f ratio, oil and fuel pressures, you need some beefy upgraded racing axles. New engine mounts. Youíll need adjustable cam gears. Youíd also probably want to upgrade the stock radiator to an all aluminum unit. So Youíll need all this AND the parts listed by the other guys to have a decent build that wonít ******* explode after a year of driving....
Lots of stuff up here that should be considered when shooting for higher power levels; 400+. That was not the question asked though, was it? Adjustable cam gear? For what? Totally unnecessary unless the cam installed requires adv or ret. And stock cam/head is good well into the 500hp range..

Originally Posted by Free Man View Post
If you donít know how forced induction, aka ďturboĒ works, then you have no business even thinking of installing one.
Only statement here I agree with 100%


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Old 08-26-2018, 08:21 AM
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Default Re: 500hp d16

Originally Posted by barrywayne View Post


intake manifold
cam. be specific , or don't list this.
valve springs
retainers
ARP headstuds only if doing this the correct way

(the right way) forged pistons in the 9.5:1-10:1 compression ballpark, will have great spool time and make plenty of power on less boost.
h-beam rods
id go with either a precision 5558 or a 5858 turbo
top mount manifold That is the wrong direction to go if you want the the car to even be remotely responsive
44mm wastegate easily done with a 38-40 mm
1000cc injectors
walbro 450lph fuel pump
hondata s300 ecu
competition stage 5 clutch or twin disc. not necessary at all, and you'll lose your patella in your knees in the process

Catch can breather setup is a must, if you donít do this your block will build crankcase pressure and wonít let the oil from the turbo drain properly and blow the seals right out of it.

depends upon the amount of crankcase pressure. In Akron to the oil return drain setup.

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Old 08-26-2018, 08:52 AM
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Default re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6

Adjustable cam gear is a very helpful item for any modified engine. Just ask any tuner!
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Old 08-26-2018, 09:37 AM
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Default re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6

Originally Posted by Free Man View Post
Adjustable cam gear is a very helpful item for any modified engine. Just ask any tuner!
"Helpful" and "necessary" is not a comparison of apples to apples here. OP is dealing with a D16Z6 engine. Totally stock head is capable of putting down great numbers. It would not be necessary for an adjustable cam gear to see 500hp, but it would certainly help.
I see you've got your head in the right place, I'll give you that.
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Old 08-26-2018, 09:55 AM
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Default re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6

Originally Posted by Txdragon View Post
"Helpful" and "necessary" is not a comparison of apples to apples here. OP is dealing with a D16Z6 engine. Totally stock head is capable of putting down great numbers. It would not be necessary for an adjustable cam gear to see 500hp, but it would certainly help.
I see you've got your head in the right place, I'll give you that.
Thanks guys for the help I appreciate your honesty. I will do some more thinking and research on it. A couple more questions though. Are the eBay turbo kits any good? How much HP could i get with one? And would I still need to do work on the engine itself with one?
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Old 08-26-2018, 10:45 AM
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Default re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6

Indeed you are correct Mr. Dragon. Just so weíre clear, I hope my post didnít rub you the wrong way, I was not at all intending to downplay your post or any of the others, my original goal was to help Roberto to reach his goal, but after learning of his budget and lack of experience, I agreed with chanceEG that the whole idea of building a 500HP z6 motor was not good in HIS case. Although no one explicitly stated that it would be easy to do so, it was implied by you and KingDee that heíd be able to reach 300-450Hp with his budget IF he was doing all the work. Again, you guys didnít warn/discourage him of other items he would need to safely operate a civic with that power on the street, so I figured Iíd play devils advocate and scare him off a little.... that way if he does decide to tackle this project he canít say that Htech members mislead him.....

im of the opinion that you do it right first and worry less about the rest. True, big brake kit / integra brakes / Mini Cooper brakes are not Essential for stopping, but if I was driving a car capable of getting me up to 130+mph within seconds, Iíd want the piece of mind knowing that I could stop that car just as quickly, and do it over and over again without worrying about fade or rotor warpage. Just piece of mind thatís all... also adjustable cam gears are not essential, but why not put a $100 part on a $5000 build if it can help squeeze every bit of power available or to help with zeroing timing on an aftermarket cam or after a head mill/swap whatever..... a motor thatís tuned to make as much power as possible before boost kicks in is always a good thing.... what good is 500 hp if power doesnít come on till 6000rpm?

we are more on the same page than not.
Kudos to you and your 347hp build.
Care to post pics?

Last edited by Free Man; 08-26-2018 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 08-26-2018, 11:31 AM
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Default Re: 500hp d16

and about the breather, yes it is a necessity.. any turbo engine is gonna have some sort of blow by pressurizing the crank case.
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Old 08-26-2018, 11:35 AM
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Default re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6

Originally Posted by KiNGDEE206 View Post
Best bet is try something like this and so you drive your daily until itís ready to swap over. Tune. Dd again. Save old motor as backup

find a z6 longblock $100-200
vitara pistons $100
custom length p2p0 rods $300-350
bearings whatever you want. Oem. King. acl $50-250
comp cam 59500/300 $200-400
delta 272-2/282-2 $200-300

get a eBay turbo piping kit $150 with bov kit
get a tial wg $100-250
getfull ramhorn or mini ramhorn if steet $200-400 used
get a eBay bov/or genuine if ya catch a good deal
find a used turbo for good price

comp clutch stage4-5+ or act/action $400
hondata s300 $300-500
1000cc $200-300
walbro 255 $80
tune$500

youll net 300-450whp depending on tuner and turbo

use that $4000. Buy used parts smartly which is wg/turbo/mani/ injectors /hondata s300v2 /maybe cam if good condition
the rest new


and id really try not to buy used injectors unless theyíre flow tested.
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Old 08-26-2018, 12:00 PM
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Default re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6

Originally Posted by barrywayne View Post
And anyone saying you need sleeves for 500hp is a dipshit.. yes itíd be nice but d series sleeves will hold nice power stock.
Dipshit? How old are you? We were having a very civil discourse before you joined in with Your condescension....

to sleeve or not to sleeve? Thatís a matter of opinion. My opinion is that since these motors are open deck, not engineered for boost, And are likely out of round after 20+ years of use/abuse Sleeves are a good measure of security. Obviously you and I come from different schools of thought. My thinking is do it one time and worry less about the rest. Boosted power is addictive. Letís say your original goal is 500 horse power, but after achieving that, perhaps you want to try 700 horse power. Or hell, why not even go for 1000 hp. Well, my thinking is the block should be built to handle any amount of boost no matter what. That way youíll never have to tear the block down after building it up. Correct me if Iím wrong but it seems your approach is to get away with the bare minimum needed to make the power with no regard as to how long that engine will last, nor thinking about further modifications moving into the future. This Mentality is what has given Honda tuners a bad reputation amongst the greater community of car tuners. It is the fact that our engines tend to explode because we just slap them together without considering all of the variables. Especially the variable of the time. At the end of the day whoever is sitting on the side of the road with the smoking engine bay is the real dipshit.

Last edited by Free Man; 08-26-2018 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 08-26-2018, 12:08 PM
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Default re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6

D series sleeve not gonna hold 500 HP reliably. maybe for a few passes but definitely not gonna hod after repeated abuse at 500HP
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Old 08-26-2018, 01:41 PM
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Default re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6

Originally Posted by barrywayne View Post
And anyone saying you need sleeves for 500hp is a dipshit.. yes itíd be nice but d series sleeves will hold nice power stock.
500hp on stock sleeves will not last long. I've seen sooooo many death threads between 400 and 500 on stock sleeves. Can it hold? Sure, but for how long? Depending on the tune, I GUARANTEE not long. It's not entirely about HP either, it's about cylinder pressure. You need to run some hefty boost to see this level, depending on a few variables. I am not close to the wanted 500 power level right now and I was STRONGLY CAUTIONED by my tuner not to exceed 18psi since I am on stock sleeves myself. He said I **can** but with my setup, the risks outweigh the rewards 3 fold.
There are other options than sleeves though. Cylinder support systems is another option and even has a warranted power level. If your **** cracks at or below 600hp on a D16, they'll refund your cheddah..
Are d-series sleeves the weak link? No, but they aren't the strongest link either.
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Old 08-26-2018, 01:42 PM
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Default re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6

Originally Posted by Free Man View Post


Dipshit? How old are you? We were having a very civil discourse before you joined in with Your condescension....

to sleeve or not to sleeve? Thatís a matter of opinion. My opinion is that since these motors are open deck, not engineered for boost, And are likely out of round after 20+ years of use/abuse Sleeves are a good measure of security. Obviously you and I come from different schools of thought. My thinking is do it one time and worry less about the rest. Boosted power is addictive. Letís say your original goal is 500 horse power, but after achieving that, perhaps you want to try 700 horse power. Or hell, why not even go for 1000 hp. Well, my thinking is the block should be built to handle any amount of boost no matter what. That way youíll never have to tear the block down after building it up. Correct me if Iím wrong but it seems your approach is to get away with the bare minimum needed to make the power with no regard as to how long that engine will last, nor thinking about further modifications moving into the future. This Mentality is what has given Honda tuners a bad reputation amongst the greater community of car tuners. It is the fact that our engines tend to explode because we just slap them together without considering all of the variables. Especially the variable of the time. At the end of the day whoever is sitting on the side of the road with the smoking engine bay is the real dipshit.
i was replying to TheShodan but heís a moderator so I guess I canít reply to him? Lol
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Old 08-26-2018, 01:49 PM
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Default re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6

Originally Posted by Txdragon View Post
500hp on stock sleeves will not last long. I've seen sooooo many death threads between 400 and 500 on stock sleeves. Can it hold? Sure, but for how long? Depending on the tune, I GUARANTEE not long. It's not entirely about HP either, it's about cylinder pressure. You need to run some hefty boost to see this level, depending on a few variables. I am not close to the wanted 500 power level right now and I was STRONGLY CAUTIONED by my tuner not to exceed 18psi since I am on stock sleeves myself. He said I **can** but with my setup, the risks outweigh the rewards 3 fold.
There are other options than sleeves though. Cylinder support systems is another option and even has a warranted power level. If your **** cracks at or below 600hp on a D16, they'll refund your cheddah..
Are d-series sleeves the weak link? No, but they aren't the strongest link either.
not just the psi or horsepower level either.. also have to think about detonation on different fuels. Higher the octane the safer you are when it comes to detonation.

never heard of cylinder support systems though, I’ll look into that.

Last edited by TheShodan; 08-27-2018 at 12:14 PM.
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