Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6
Hey guys I'm new to this forum I was wanting to see if y'all could help me with my car. So I have a 92 civic SI stock and I want to get it to 500hp if not at least close but I have no idea on where to even start or steps I need to take to get it there so if any one could help out I would greatly appreciate it.
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re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6
Originally Posted by RobertoHdz
(Post 51715209)
Hey guys I'm new to this forum I was wanting to see if y'all could help me with my car. So I have a 92 civic SI stock and I want to get it to 500hp if not at least close but I have no idea on where to even start or steps I need to take to get it there so if any one could help out I would greatly appreciate it.
Is this for street? Track? Both? |
re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6
What is your budget? Tell me how much money you’re willing to spend , and whether this will be a one off build or one that you’re trying to accomplish over time while keeping the car on the road, and I’ll tell you how to go about this. |
Re: 500hp d16
Originally Posted by RobertoHdz
(Post 51715098)
Hey guys new to this forum, just wanted to see if I could get some help or advice on how I can get my 92 si to 500hp.
cam valve springs retainers ARP headstuds (cheap route) vitara pistons 8-8.5:1 compression will take lots of boost to make the power and will be laggy as dog shit. (the right way) forged pistons in the 9.5:1-10:1 compression ballpark, will have great spool time and make plenty of power on less boost. h-beam rods id go with either a precision 5558 or a 5858 turbo top mount manifold 44mm wastegate 1000cc injectors walbro 450lph fuel pump hondata s300 ecu competition stage 5 clutch or twin disc. Catch can breather setup is a must, if you don’t do this your block will build crankcase pressure and won’t let the oil from the turbo drain properly and blow the seals right out of it. |
re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6
Thanks guys for the help. Sorry im a bit new on the engine mod scene so I don't understand some of the lingo lol. What's a t3/t4, is that the turbo? And would e85 fuel be better? My budget for this is maybe like 4,000 or less, also this is my daily driver so until I get another car I cant be with out it too long and I dont plan on any track use .
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Re: 500hp d16
Any idea on about how much this will cost?
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re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6
You're not going to get 500HP out of a D series with a 4000 or less budget, especially not in a method that's reliable as your daily driver, and triple especially since you're new to engine modifications and presumably working intimately on cars.
My advice - Don't do it. Save up a bit more money, look on Craigslist and find another Honda that may already have a turbo on it. Ask for second opinions, buy that, use it as a learning platform, and go from there. 500WHP out of a D series will mandate sleeves, full engine rebuild with forged rods/pistons, upgraded valve springs and retainers. That alone will cost you over $2000 if you have a shop perform the labor for you. A proper turbo kit will cost at least $3000 on it's own, and that's not counting the other $800 you'll be spending on the fuel system (especially if going E85/flex fuel). AND, that's not counting the need to upgrade the clutch/pressure plate to hold the power. BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE, you'll also need a programmable ECU, such as Hondata S300 or Neptune, as well as paying a competent tuner to tune the engine for the new power and modifications. These are mandatory, not options. You're simply not ready for this yet. |
re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6
^^^ I second this guys response... He forgot to mention that you’d need some major brakes for stopping power to go along with your 500hp motor.... since youre new new at this, why don’t you set a realistic power goal for your stock EG. like 170hp. This should be reachable with your budget. do TONS of research and perform a basic tuneup and then upgrade your suspension to handle like a Honda should, then either start tackling a high compression or mild turbo build and enjoy.... the experience you will have gained will give you the reference needed to decide whether you really want a 500hp (dragstrip only) Honda Civic. ps if this is a daily driver I suggest you get another motor to build so you can swap it in and get it running with no downtime. Me personally, I would not recommend buying any ones turbo Honda Civic. Unless they wrote a manual to go along with all the modifications that they’ve done to the car, it could potentialy be a nightmare trying to reverse engineer what was done to the car in order to properly maintain it and/or add any more modifications |
re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6
And hey, don’t take our advice the wrong way, a 500hp daily driven, street legal civic is not impossible to build.... but it’s just impossible for someone new to tuning to pull it off with only $4000. IF, and that’s a big IF, you were capable of doing ALL the work from turning wrenches to fabrication to tuning, and you didn’t mind spending a couple years searching the internet religiously for all your needed parts to pop at great prices, then perhaps you’d be able to pull it off with $4k.... OR if you have cash in the neighborhood of $15,000 you might be able to have it built for you.... at the end of the day, Honda civics don’t need GOBS of power to be quick and fun street cars. After driving your stock 115hp EG, a VERY simple stock B series swap will earn you 20-50 horses and put a smile on your face. |
re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6
Originally Posted by RobertoHdz
(Post 51715315)
Thanks guys for the help. Sorry im a bit new on the engine mod scene so I don't understand some of the lingo lol. What's a t3/t4, is that the turbo? And would e85 fuel be better? My budget for this is maybe like 4,000 or less, also this is my daily driver so until I get another car I cant be with out it too long and I dont plan on any track use .
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re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6
Best bet is try something like this and so you drive your daily until it’s ready to swap over. Tune. Dd again. Save old motor as backup find a z6 longblock $100-200 vitara pistons $100 custom length p2p0 rods $300-350 bearings whatever you want. Oem. King. acl $50-250 comp cam 59500/300 $200-400 delta 272-2/282-2 $200-300 get a eBay turbo piping kit $150 with bov kit get a tial wg $100-250 getfull ramhorn or mini ramhorn if steet $200-400 used get a eBay bov/or genuine if ya catch a good deal find a used turbo for good price comp clutch stage4-5+ or act/action $400 hondata s300 $300-500 1000cc $200-300 walbro 255 $80 tune$500 youll net 300-450whp depending on tuner and turbo use that $4000. Buy used parts smartly which is wg/turbo/mani/ injectors /hondata s300v2 /maybe cam if good condition the rest new |
re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6
Originally Posted by RobertoHdz
(Post 51715315)
Thanks guys for the help. Sorry im a bit new on the engine mod scene so I don't understand some of the lingo lol. What's a t3/t4, is that the turbo? And would e85 fuel be better? My budget for this is maybe like 4,000 or less, also this is my daily driver so until I get another car I cant be with out it too long and I dont plan on any track use .
in some of these responses I’m guessing that the posters are assuming you will do most of the work yourself.... Do you have the tools required to pull off this job? There’s more $$$ to be spent right there.....you say you’re new to this, that means you will make some mistakes, it’s inevitable. There’s probably some more $$$ down the drain there.... txdragon and kingdee say you’ll be able to net between 300-450 HP for $4k but honestly I’m not sure if it’s realistic... I mean, you say your civic is stock.... there are things you’ll need that weren’t listed by any of these guys like a big brake upgrade kit. Another neglected area of tuning is the suspension. I mean, would you want to be pushing 300+ horses while riding at stock height? You’ll need $1000+ at least for just a decent coilover or Koni-GC setup. Once you lower it, more stress will be placed on all suspension components likely necessitating their replacement with newer parts. I’m talking about tie rods, wheel hubs, ball joints etc..... you’ll need adjustable upper control Arms on the front and adjustable camber rods for the rear. You’ll need wider wheels and new tires to be able to put that power to the ground without burning rubber to get out of 1st gear. How about replacing the 20 something year old bushings on your civic? Wouldn’t you like to have sway bars? How about various brace bars for further stiffening of the chassis. You’ll need a wide band o2 sensor and guages for a/f ratio, oil and fuel pressures, you need some beefy upgraded racing axles. New engine mounts. You’ll need adjustable cam gears. You’d also probably want to upgrade the stock radiator to an all aluminum unit. If you’re boosting and you want the engine to hold up for years to come, you need new sleeves, possibly a block guard or cylinder posts. And you’ll have to pay someone to install those. Also valve springs, retainers, guides etc... You’ll need all this AND the parts listed by the other guys to have a decent build that won’t fucking explode after a year of driving.... Please please please take advice from a guy who’s been there. Don’t get into a project that’s over your head... you’ll get burnt out, you’ll lose interest and most of your money... take it slow and LEARN! Start by “tuning” your suspension. It’ll make your car safer and more fun to drive... I don’t want to sound like an ass, but If you don’t know how forced induction, aka “turbo” works, then you have no business even thinking of installing one. Which is okay... just do a bunch of research... if you want to know who is the KING of d-series turbo builds, look to bisimoto. If you don’t know who that is, you need to google some Honda tuning history so you can fully appreciate how this wonderful and unlikely underdog of a car brand became a powerhouse name in the auto performance world.... It all started with guys blowing up their engines with high compression 10k rpm builds, slapping together home made turbos, figuring shit out, and making the big mistakes, learning from them, and sharing the knowledge through the wonderful World Wide Web.. all that work was done so that we shouldn’t have to experience the pain of building something that just doesnt work or something that breaks after a short while...... good luck and have fun! |
re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6
Originally Posted by Free Man
(Post 51715413)
Roberto, please don’t let anyone make you feel like it’s going to be easy to slap together a turbo setup... Nobody here said it's going to be.
Originally Posted by Free Man
(Post 51715413)
in some of these responses I’m guessing that the posters are assuming you will do most of the work yourself.... Do you have the tools required to pull off this job? There’s more $$$ to be spent right there.....you say you’re new to this, that means you will make some mistakes, it’s inevitable. There’s probably some more $$$ down the drain there....
Originally Posted by Free Man
(Post 51715413)
txdragon and kingdee say you’ll be able to net between 300-450 HP for $4k but honestly I’m not sure if it’s realistic... I mean, you say your civic is stock....
Originally Posted by Free Man
(Post 51715413)
there are things you’ll need that weren’t listed by any of these guys like a big brake upgrade kit which would require a rear trailing arm disc conversion to even pull off.
Originally Posted by Free Man
(Post 51715413)
Another neglected area of tuning is the suspension. I mean, would you want to be pushing 300+ horses while riding at stock height? You’ll need $1000+ at least for just a decent coilover or Koni-GC setup. Once you lower it, more stress will be placed on all suspension components likely necessitating their replacement with newer parts. I’m talking about tie rods, wheel hubs, ball joints etc..... you’ll need adjustable upper control Arms on the front and adjustable camber rods for the rear. You’ll need wider wheels and new tires to be able to put that power to the ground without burning rubber to get out of 1st gear. How about replacing the 20 something year old bushings on your civic? Wouldn’t you like to have sway bars? How about various brace bars for further stiffening of the chassis. You’ll need a wide band o2 sensor and guages for a/f ratio, oil and fuel pressures, you need some beefy upgraded racing axles. New engine mounts. You’ll need adjustable cam gears. You’d also probably want to upgrade the stock radiator to an all aluminum unit. So You’ll need all this AND the parts listed by the other guys to have a decent build that won’t fucking explode after a year of driving....
Originally Posted by Free Man
(Post 51715413)
If you don’t know how forced induction, aka “turbo” works, then you have no business even thinking of installing one.
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Re: 500hp d16
Originally Posted by barrywayne
(Post 51715263)
intake manifold cam. be specific , or don't list this. valve springs retainers ARP headstuds only if doing this the correct way (the right way) forged pistons in the 9.5:1-10:1 compression ballpark, will have great spool time and make plenty of power on less boost. h-beam rods id go with either a precision 5558 or a 5858 turbo top mount manifold That is the wrong direction to go if you want the the car to even be remotely responsive 44mm wastegate easily done with a 38-40 mm 1000cc injectors walbro 450lph fuel pump hondata s300 ecu competition stage 5 clutch or twin disc. not necessary at all, and you'll lose your patella in your knees in the process Catch can breather setup is a must, if you don’t do this your block will build crankcase pressure and won’t let the oil from the turbo drain properly and blow the seals right out of it. depends upon the amount of crankcase pressure. In Akron to the oil return drain setup. |
re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6
Adjustable cam gear is a very helpful item for any modified engine. Just ask any tuner! |
re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6
Originally Posted by Free Man
(Post 51715474)
Adjustable cam gear is a very helpful item for any modified engine. Just ask any tuner! I see you've got your head in the right place, I'll give you that. |
re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6
Originally Posted by Txdragon
(Post 51715487)
"Helpful" and "necessary" is not a comparison of apples to apples here. OP is dealing with a D16Z6 engine. Totally stock head is capable of putting down great numbers. It would not be necessary for an adjustable cam gear to see 500hp, but it would certainly help. ;)
I see you've got your head in the right place, I'll give you that. |
re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6
Indeed you are correct Mr. Dragon. Just so we’re clear, I hope my post didn’t rub you the wrong way, I was not at all intending to downplay your post or any of the others, my original goal was to help Roberto to reach his goal, but after learning of his budget and lack of experience, I agreed with chanceEG that the whole idea of building a 500HP z6 motor was not good in HIS case. Although no one explicitly stated that it would be easy to do so, it was implied by you and KingDee that he’d be able to reach 300-450Hp with his budget IF he was doing all the work. Again, you guys didn’t warn/discourage him of other items he would need to safely operate a civic with that power on the street, so I figured I’d play devils advocate and scare him off a little.... that way if he does decide to tackle this project he can’t say that Htech members mislead him..... im of the opinion that you do it right first and worry less about the rest. True, big brake kit / integra brakes / Mini Cooper brakes are not Essential for stopping, but if I was driving a car capable of getting me up to 130+mph within seconds, I’d want the piece of mind knowing that I could stop that car just as quickly, and do it over and over again without worrying about fade or rotor warpage. Just piece of mind that’s all... also adjustable cam gears are not essential, but why not put a $100 part on a $5000 build if it can help squeeze every bit of power available or to help with zeroing timing on an aftermarket cam or after a head mill/swap whatever..... a motor that’s tuned to make as much power as possible before boost kicks in is always a good thing.... what good is 500 hp if power doesn’t come on till 6000rpm? we are more on the same page than not. Kudos to you and your 347hp build. Care to post pics? |
Re: 500hp d16
and about the breather, yes it is a necessity.. any turbo engine is gonna have some sort of blow by pressurizing the crank case. |
re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6
Originally Posted by KiNGDEE206
(Post 51715385)
Best bet is try something like this and so you drive your daily until it’s ready to swap over. Tune. Dd again. Save old motor as backup find a z6 longblock $100-200 vitara pistons $100 custom length p2p0 rods $300-350 bearings whatever you want. Oem. King. acl $50-250 comp cam 59500/300 $200-400 delta 272-2/282-2 $200-300 get a eBay turbo piping kit $150 with bov kit get a tial wg $100-250 getfull ramhorn or mini ramhorn if steet $200-400 used get a eBay bov/or genuine if ya catch a good deal find a used turbo for good price comp clutch stage4-5+ or act/action $400 hondata s300 $300-500 1000cc $200-300 walbro 255 $80 tune$500 youll net 300-450whp depending on tuner and turbo use that $4000. Buy used parts smartly which is wg/turbo/mani/ injectors /hondata s300v2 /maybe cam if good condition the rest new |
re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6
Originally Posted by barrywayne
(Post 51715528)
And anyone saying you need sleeves for 500hp is a dipshit.. yes it’d be nice but d series sleeves will hold nice power stock. to sleeve or not to sleeve? That’s a matter of opinion. My opinion is that since these motors are open deck, not engineered for boost, And are likely out of round after 20+ years of use/abuse Sleeves are a good measure of security. Obviously you and I come from different schools of thought. My thinking is do it one time and worry less about the rest. Boosted power is addictive. Let’s say your original goal is 500 horse power, but after achieving that, perhaps you want to try 700 horse power. Or hell, why not even go for 1000 hp. Well, my thinking is the block should be built to handle any amount of boost no matter what. That way you’ll never have to tear the block down after building it up. Correct me if I’m wrong but it seems your approach is to get away with the bare minimum needed to make the power with no regard as to how long that engine will last, nor thinking about further modifications moving into the future. This Mentality is what has given Honda tuners a bad reputation amongst the greater community of car tuners. It is the fact that our engines tend to explode because we just slap them together without considering all of the variables. Especially the variable of the time. At the end of the day whoever is sitting on the side of the road with the smoking engine bay is the real dipshit. |
re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6
D series sleeve not gonna hold 500 HP reliably. maybe for a few passes but definitely not gonna hod after repeated abuse at 500HP
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re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6
Originally Posted by barrywayne
(Post 51715528)
And anyone saying you need sleeves for 500hp is a dipshit.. yes it’d be nice but d series sleeves will hold nice power stock. There are other options than sleeves though. Cylinder support systems is another option and even has a warranted power level. If your shit cracks at or below 600hp on a D16, they'll refund your cheddah.. Are d-series sleeves the weak link? No, but they aren't the strongest link either. |
re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6
Originally Posted by Free Man
(Post 51715551)
Dipshit? How old are you? We were having a very civil discourse before you joined in with Your condescension.... to sleeve or not to sleeve? That’s a matter of opinion. My opinion is that since these motors are open deck, not engineered for boost, And are likely out of round after 20+ years of use/abuse Sleeves are a good measure of security. Obviously you and I come from different schools of thought. My thinking is do it one time and worry less about the rest. Boosted power is addictive. Let’s say your original goal is 500 horse power, but after achieving that, perhaps you want to try 700 horse power. Or hell, why not even go for 1000 hp. Well, my thinking is the block should be built to handle any amount of boost no matter what. That way you’ll never have to tear the block down after building it up. Correct me if I’m wrong but it seems your approach is to get away with the bare minimum needed to make the power with no regard as to how long that engine will last, nor thinking about further modifications moving into the future. This Mentality is what has given Honda tuners a bad reputation amongst the greater community of car tuners. It is the fact that our engines tend to explode because we just slap them together without considering all of the variables. Especially the variable of the time. At the end of the day whoever is sitting on the side of the road with the smoking engine bay is the real dipshit. |
re: Robertohdz's attempt at getting 500whp out of a D16A6
Originally Posted by Txdragon
(Post 51715591)
500hp on stock sleeves will not last long. I've seen sooooo many death threads between 400 and 500 on stock sleeves. Can it hold? Sure, but for how long? Depending on the tune, I GUARANTEE not long. It's not entirely about HP either, it's about cylinder pressure. You need to run some hefty boost to see this level, depending on a few variables. I am not close to the wanted 500 power level right now and I was STRONGLY CAUTIONED by my tuner not to exceed 18psi since I am on stock sleeves myself. He said I **can** but with my setup, the risks outweigh the rewards 3 fold.
There are other options than sleeves though. Cylinder support systems is another option and even has a warranted power level. If your shit cracks at or below 600hp on a D16, they'll refund your cheddah.. Are d-series sleeves the weak link? No, but they aren't the strongest link either. never heard of cylinder support systems though, I’ll look into that. |
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