Re Torque段ng the HEAD with ARP studs.
11-17-2002, 11:36 AM
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Re Torque段ng the HEAD with ARP studs.
Hey all, when using ARP studs with a b16 ( hell any engine ) do you guys re torque after running in a new fully built engine , because iv asked a few local Honda dealers out here in Australia and they say the head gasket is not re torque able, which I think is bull crap.
And when / if you re torque do you loosen off the bolts, or just tighten them up / double check there still at the same torque levels ?
Regards James
And when / if you re torque do you loosen off the bolts, or just tighten them up / double check there still at the same torque levels ?
Regards James
07-03-2003, 12:02 PM
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Re: Re Torque段ng the HEAD with ARP studs. (Killer_B)
alum. head, alum. block means no re-torque..
iron block, alum. heads = retorque.
You have to retorque them b/c the different exspantion rates on 2 very different metals, but with a honda, both metals are the same.
iron block, alum. heads = retorque.
You have to retorque them b/c the different exspantion rates on 2 very different metals, but with a honda, both metals are the same.
07-04-2003, 10:14 PM
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Re: Re Torque段ng the HEAD with ARP studs. (89dxhunchback)
if it was a brand new studs out of the box, I'd retorque them after about 1000 miles. DO NOT loosen it, just check the torque specs and make sure you're still the same specs as you torqued it before.
I added a few pounds when I re-torqued mine.
stan
I added a few pounds when I re-torqued mine.
stan
07-05-2003, 01:06 AM
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DSM's have iron blocks and aluminum heads, and it has ben proven that retorquing is not necessary. I know many people that have checked their ARP's after runing the car for a day or a few days or a week, and torque is always right where they set it.
On a side note, make ABSOLUTELY sure to use some kind of moly lube, not motor oil.
On a side note, make ABSOLUTELY sure to use some kind of moly lube, not motor oil.
07-05-2003, 02:45 AM
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Re: (kpt4321)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kpt4321 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> On a side note, make ABSOLUTELY sure to use some kind of moly lube, not motor oil.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
you can use motor oil, you just have to add torque to it, mostly about 10-15 lb/ft extra than what it is on moly lube
stan
</TD></TR></TABLE>
you can use motor oil, you just have to add torque to it, mostly about 10-15 lb/ft extra than what it is on moly lube
stan
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07-05-2003, 04:37 AM
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Re: Re Torque段ng the HEAD with ARP studs. (Flamenco-T)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flamenco-T »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if it was a brand new studs out of the box, I'd retorque them after about 1000 miles. DO NOT loosen it, just check the torque specs and make sure you're still the same specs as you torqued it before.
I added a few pounds when I re-torqued mine.
stan
</TD></TR></TABLE>
we lost 4 ft/lbs from the original 82 ft/lbs on the AEBS head studs. Glad we re-torqued
I added a few pounds when I re-torqued mine.
stan
</TD></TR></TABLE>
we lost 4 ft/lbs from the original 82 ft/lbs on the AEBS head studs. Glad we re-torqued
07-05-2003, 06:05 AM
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Re: Re Torque段ng the HEAD with ARP studs. (Tinker219)
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=494573
Check this thread in Drag Racing, Busta Nutt616 actually posted the correct procedure according to ARP, this is the same info we were told about a year ago when we were doing my motor and a couple others using ARP head studs. We all use AEBS studs now though. Much better design, from AEBS site,
"Innovative AEBS dimple head and main stud fasteners utilize stress neutralizer ends, which are used on IRL, F1 racing engines. The dimple design preloads all the threads of the stud on all the threads on the block. The dimple bottoms out first rather than bottoming out the thread of the stud. Our studs are also 5 percent bigger than the competition. This translates into a precise torque spec on head and main studs. Ultimately it provides better holding of the cylinder head to the block and of the main caps to the block!"
The dimple bottoms out first rather than bottoming out the thread of the stud.
Check this thread in Drag Racing, Busta Nutt616 actually posted the correct procedure according to ARP, this is the same info we were told about a year ago when we were doing my motor and a couple others using ARP head studs. We all use AEBS studs now though. Much better design, from AEBS site,
"Innovative AEBS dimple head and main stud fasteners utilize stress neutralizer ends, which are used on IRL, F1 racing engines. The dimple design preloads all the threads of the stud on all the threads on the block. The dimple bottoms out first rather than bottoming out the thread of the stud. Our studs are also 5 percent bigger than the competition. This translates into a precise torque spec on head and main studs. Ultimately it provides better holding of the cylinder head to the block and of the main caps to the block!"
The dimple bottoms out first rather than bottoming out the thread of the stud.
07-05-2003, 06:59 AM
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Re: Re Torque段ng the HEAD with ARP studs. (Boostfed)
just retorqued my arp studs after 2000 miles. Aluminum head + iron block.
There was only one stud that was a little loose. I loosened each one a little before retorqueing them to 78.
There was only one stud that was a little loose. I loosened each one a little before retorqueing them to 78.
07-05-2003, 08:19 AM
#11
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Re: Re Torque段ng the HEAD with ARP studs. (S03Burner)
I never have retorqued my ARP head studs. the time i mishifted the car and had to take the head off I decided before i pull it to chekc the tq and it was at 82ft lbs the same as the first time. i use 30wt oil on mine w/o any issues.
07-05-2003, 08:24 AM
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Re: Re Torque段ng the HEAD with ARP studs. (MotorMatrix.com)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MotorMatrix.com »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I never have retorqued my ARP head studs. the time i mishifted the car and had to take the head off I decided before i pull it to chekc the tq and it was at 82ft lbs the same as the first time. i use 30wt oil on mine w/o any issues. </TD></TR></TABLE>Had you used these before and reused them in this motor? Or was this in the motor originally and never touched again, brand new studs?
07-05-2003, 08:45 AM
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Re: Re Torque段ng the HEAD with ARP studs. (MotorMatrix.com)
Directly from the ARP website:
It痴 difficult to determine the amount of torque required to provide
the correct preload and clamp force of a given fastener. For example謡hen
tightened, dry uncoated fasteners use up about 85% of the applied torque
simply overcoming the friction between the male and female threads. To
ensure that all ARPｮ fasteners provide the optimum level of service, the
installed residual stress is calculated and verified experimentally using a
superior quality lubricant. It is important to note that the friction coefficients
of lubricants vary, making it difficult to consistently get
the exact amount of stress within the fastener to clamp the
components together. That痴 why ARPｮ developed an
ultra-consistent moly lubricant and companion
thread sealer. Because both of these products
have been thoroughly tested and proven effective,
they are recommended. See page 66 of this catalog.
Also, it is important to note that oil can break down , or at least change it's lubricant properties, under the stress that occurs at the threads of a highly torqued fastener.
I personally wouldn't want to do a "hack" job on my head studs, and I'm a DSM'er. We're known for hack jobs. Of course, our hack jobs tend to be very fast....
It痴 difficult to determine the amount of torque required to provide
the correct preload and clamp force of a given fastener. For example謡hen
tightened, dry uncoated fasteners use up about 85% of the applied torque
simply overcoming the friction between the male and female threads. To
ensure that all ARPｮ fasteners provide the optimum level of service, the
installed residual stress is calculated and verified experimentally using a
superior quality lubricant. It is important to note that the friction coefficients
of lubricants vary, making it difficult to consistently get
the exact amount of stress within the fastener to clamp the
components together. That痴 why ARPｮ developed an
ultra-consistent moly lubricant and companion
thread sealer. Because both of these products
have been thoroughly tested and proven effective,
they are recommended. See page 66 of this catalog.
Also, it is important to note that oil can break down , or at least change it's lubricant properties, under the stress that occurs at the threads of a highly torqued fastener.
I personally wouldn't want to do a "hack" job on my head studs, and I'm a DSM'er. We're known for hack jobs. Of course, our hack jobs tend to be very fast....
07-05-2003, 08:48 AM
#14
I am a bad person
Re: Re Torque段ng the HEAD with ARP studs. (Boostfed)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostfed »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Had you used these before and reused them in this motor? Or was this in the motor originally and never touched again, brand new studs? </TD></TR></TABLE>
they were brand new.
they were brand new.
07-05-2003, 09:15 AM
#15
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Re Torque段ng the HEAD with ARP studs. (Boostfed)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostfed »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=494573
Check this thread in Drag Racing, Busta Nutt616 actually posted the correct procedure according to ARP, this is the same info we were told about a year ago when we were doing my motor and a couple others using ARP head studs. We all use AEBS studs now though. Much better design, from AEBS site
</TD></TR></TABLE>Read my reply on that thread. That is bad info from ARP. I absolutely agree on how much better AEBS stud is in design over the ARP..
Check this thread in Drag Racing, Busta Nutt616 actually posted the correct procedure according to ARP, this is the same info we were told about a year ago when we were doing my motor and a couple others using ARP head studs. We all use AEBS studs now though. Much better design, from AEBS site
</TD></TR></TABLE>Read my reply on that thread. That is bad info from ARP. I absolutely agree on how much better AEBS stud is in design over the ARP..
07-05-2003, 09:20 AM
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Re: Re Torque段ng the HEAD with ARP studs. (Boostfed)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostfed »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=494573
"Innovative AEBS dimple head and main stud fasteners utilize stress neutralizer ends, which are used on IRL, F1 racing engines. The dimple design preloads all the threads of the stud on all the threads on the block. The dimple bottoms out first rather than bottoming out the thread of the stud. Our studs are also 5 percent bigger than the competition. This translates into a precise torque spec on head and main studs. Ultimately it provides better holding of the cylinder head to the block and of the main caps to the block!"
The dimple bottoms out first rather than bottoming out the thread of the stud.
</TD></TR></TABLE>BTW, you can get the same effect with the ARP studs by dropping a steel ball bearing down each thread hole before installing the studs. I have never had the guts to do this, however but ARP says it would be ok.
"Innovative AEBS dimple head and main stud fasteners utilize stress neutralizer ends, which are used on IRL, F1 racing engines. The dimple design preloads all the threads of the stud on all the threads on the block. The dimple bottoms out first rather than bottoming out the thread of the stud. Our studs are also 5 percent bigger than the competition. This translates into a precise torque spec on head and main studs. Ultimately it provides better holding of the cylinder head to the block and of the main caps to the block!"
The dimple bottoms out first rather than bottoming out the thread of the stud.
</TD></TR></TABLE>BTW, you can get the same effect with the ARP studs by dropping a steel ball bearing down each thread hole before installing the studs. I have never had the guts to do this, however but ARP says it would be ok.
07-05-2003, 09:32 AM
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Re: Re Torque段ng the HEAD with ARP studs. (earl)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">BTW, you can get the same effect with the ARP studs by dropping a steel ball bearing down each thread hole before installing the studs. I have never had the guts to do this, however but ARP says it would be ok.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah we weregonna do that before alsi, suggested by my machine shop but we were setting up with AEBS anyways and got good prices on them. Spoke to AEBS ans states no need for retorquing and no heat cycles, we havent had any probs outof the 5 sets we've installed. AEBS studs
And I have a Darton sleeved vblock which is same as AEBS' until the patent issues. I know your feelings on the closed deck design earl 
Yeah we weregonna do that before alsi, suggested by my machine shop but we were setting up with AEBS anyways and got good prices on them. Spoke to AEBS ans states no need for retorquing and no heat cycles, we havent had any probs outof the 5 sets we've installed. AEBS studs
And I have a Darton sleeved vblock which is same as AEBS' until the patent issues. I know your feelings on the closed deck design earl
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