BoostedEgHatchFl

iTrader: (2)

Ive been thinking about changing over to an air to water setup on my eg hatch. Im running a 82mm sleeves b16. Ive got an old school inline pro maninfold and 3 inch dp. I still have ac in the car just not working at this time. My hot side pipe pretty much touches the dp. Both are wrapped of course. Well down here in Fl its really hot and Ive been having to daily driver this car for awhile. Ive noticed my ECTs stay in the 192-200 range depending on if im stopped or crusing. But if I stop at a red light then my IATs will go up too the 145+ range and once I start driving again they never really go down too much.....maybe 130 even at 3 a.m. when Im driving to work they stay in the `110-120 range. Just wondering if going to an air to water would help me out any.

BoostedEgHatchFl

iTrader: (2)

bump

digital sol

iTrader: (1)

for a2w on the street to work properly it needs to be a rather large system which can be a it of $$ after all said & done depending on which route you take...if you keep the system smaller once the water/mix heats up there isn't much to take its temp's back down, most will argue a2w is for drag only when you can slam it with ice

im going a2w for a street car looking for 600whp however I will have aprox 8 gallons in the system w/a high flowing pump, a2w barrel intercooler & a large front mount heat exchanger, we will see how it works out

in for more info

SovXietday

Don't waste your time unless you can fab stuff yourself. You will need a very large water reservoir and heat exchanger to keep control of your water temperatures over heat soak.

BoostedEgHatchFl

iTrader: (2)

Frozenboost.com has rather good pricing on the ic and heat exchanger..... Everything else would be easy to make myself

drummerdude

don't listen to all the misinformation on these forums. there is a reason engines aren't air-cooled, the reason... water is FAR more efficient at transferring heat than air. I come from the subaru community, and intercoolers are much more of a hot topic than with hondas, probably because of the factory tubo and top mount intercooler. I've seen this question posted many times on the subaru forums... always the same answer, only for drag, too complicated, etc. nobody with any real experience, just heard it from someone else on the forums. somebody got tired of the back and forth and decided to test it, air to air was on average well more than 200% ambient, air to water on the same car was less tha 150%. I will go and find the results so I can give the exact numbers, but the conclusion was, given the price of a good quality fmic kit for a wrx, it was cheaper and more efficient to run an air to water intercooler. I'll go and look for the results right now...

pros - less pressure drop
- lower temps
- no heat soak
- better throttle response (shorter piping)
- stealth
cons - heavier
- pump that may need to be replaced every so many years
- have to fab up your own system

http://www.frozenboost.com/stpg.php?...96550c6fc11dfe

drummerdude

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...t=air+to+water

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/water-me...-ic-build.html

just built a good kit on frozenboost for a civic, including the cobra pump, all its missing is the intercooler piping, and it was under $600 with everything but the little bit of piping to be fabricated and bov. for a wrx a name-brand fmic kit will cost you well over $1000

2point2

Seriously? Comparing an incomplete ebay-esc kit to a complete name-brand WRX kit.

digital sol, do you mind sharing some of the real-world costs associated with building an A2W setup? Your setup looks like a great benchmark for street/strip use!

Black R

Cons for me are:

Weight
More **** to go wrong / leak / fail
Water heats up in reservoir, so efficiency goes down?
$$$
Rule set restrictions / penalties by class

I guess a water / meth injection kit may be somewhat middle of the road and could work in between air to air and water to air.

I'm interested tho, in for more info.

drummerdude

You obviously didn't read the forum link I posted, in the wrx setup (from frozenboost), he said the entire time up until that post, the water temp never went more than 4-6 degrees above ambient. with a properly sized heat exchanger and a reservoir, the water doesn't heat up alot, and even still, the more the water heats up, the more heat will be shed by the exchanger. the only setups that have been tried and people complained about the water heating up alot, were either not running a reservoir and/or running an oil cooler sized heat exchanger.

drummerdude

do you really get penalties for running an air to water intercooler? that would be a con, and the weight and more stuff to go wrong are the true cons of the system.

digital sol

iTrader: (1)

Heres my setup this far, I am not finished with my build yet so I do not have any numbers or anything just yet but in due time.

1) 5 Gallon water cell for my trunk - $100
2) Meziere Water Pump - $150
3) Custom Heat exchanger - 28x10x3 - $500
Note: I did not "need" to have a custom heat exchanger made but I wanted one specific for my front bumper & large enough to support future goals so I had it made. Its dual pass w/-12 AN fittings
4) 6x10 PWR A2W intercooler - $500
Note: This was BNIB but not purchased from a dealer, original cost i believe is near the $800 range
5) Hose/Fittings - Probably another easy $500 here. You dont think much about it until you are 15 -AN fittings deep with hose running from front to back.

By no means cheap but I wanted to go a different route than the typically a2a setup's. Id imagine I would have at the least 8 gallons in the system once everything is filled up but time will tell. Hoping to see this setup support my high boost goals of 600whp. For a daily number id be happy with the power around 350-400whp. I am keeping A/C but not power steering.

The cons are easy
1) Can get costly depending on which options you choose
2) Add's weight to the car
Note: I dont really mind the added weight, a nice EBC can fix that with more power...or the fact the IAT's will stay low enough I end up making more power at lower boost levels is the idea, besides its a damn go cart anyways.
3) Potential Leaks
Havnt filled mine up just yet but with all the fittings everywhere there is potential to have leaks in the system..I went with -AN fittings & telfon for each of them so I am hoping I will not have any issues but even so thats just prep work anywho.

drummerdude

make sure you post your numbers once its running. from the couple I have seen built with high quality components (meziere pump and custome heat exchanger) cost seems to be about $1000-$1500, but again thats a system with high quality components.

drummerdude

any updates so far?

Cole D

That article is money and really explains the misunderstood water to air intercooler

Julio@Bisimoto

Another more cost effective way of lowering intake air temperatures and at the same time increasing fuel octane would be going with a water/meth injection kit.

AEM Electronics designs a very nice kit that uses a boost-dependent, variable-flow progressive controller to determine the amount of water/methanol mixture to feed into the inlet stream lowering air charge temperatures and suppress detonation.

The air charge temperature is reduced through evaporative cooling as the fluid changes states and goes from a liquid to a vapor reducing intake air temperatures by as much as 100°F or more!

If your interested in more information shoot me a pm.

Black R

No I hadn't read your links yet, hence the question mark in my post.

I'm already have a water / meth injection kit, so I'm gonna try that for hot summer events.

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

is there any reason why you can't run both? never been done?

drummerdude

water/meth injection and air-water intercooling can lead to sub-ambient temps, very good for those in hot climates to run both.