weird... all the rings i have ever gotten from wiseco came in a plastic bag, top, middle and the oil rings all in the same bags.

i believe n150 is on all the rings.. i have a couple extra sets in the shop, ill check em out tomm.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">weird... all the rings i have ever gotten from wiseco came in a plastic bag, top, middle and the oil rings all in the same bags.

i believe n150 is on all the rings.. i have a couple extra sets in the shop, ill check em out tomm.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I wonder if maybe Wiseco did not have a set in stock and took some from something else? I could not tell you since I do not build a bunch of motors with them and that's why I asked this question.

 

i have used JE, CP and Wiseco's on 3 different builts i have done on D16Z6 @ 75.5mm bore

i have never experienced that
i have always had the right clearances on the rings, and not experienced this issue
i was going to say check the sleeves for any warpage along the bore, but i would think that the machineshop who sleeved it already make sure it was

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ninesecrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Broken pistons are a thing of the past. Even if there was an issue, there has been a design change and this will never be an issue for anyone else. This is not a post on who has better product, just wanted to know if others have had the same problem I did........ </TD></TR></TABLE>

Glad to hear since i just bought CP, I was going to go with wiseco but the builder was highly against them. I asked around and heard some issues with their rings and tolerance issues, most accredited it to the coating on the piston, I think this is a different issue all together than what you are describing though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ninesecrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Broken pistons are a thing of the past.

...Once again, I have never had an issue with The CP's...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd hate to think the Laskeys 'sold out' and are being paid by CP. Before the redesign you guys suggested it was mainly from tuning or oil [causing heat]. Then they go and redesign it for the hell of it...

With all honesty, I'd rather take a risk with a wiseco piston that works across the board (drag, autox, street) than from a company that designed their product with a very, very narrow view of its usage. Very few cars get retuned on the dyno every month, nor does every engine get every possible wear part replaced, nor do many cars get new turbos every 100 miles. A bit of oil in the chamber should be expected on a FI motor, esp if its a vtec motor, which is known to burn oil more than typical motors. BTW it should be pointed out Honda used less tension for their rings than the average motor would call for.


Anyways, I recently put my 75.5mm wisecos in, and didn't experience unusual ring tensions. All rings needed very little material removed to reach the proper gaps, and the oil rings were left alone, as they were w/in the typical recommended range. Mine also all came in wiseco-branded bags, 1 set per bag.


Modified by HiProfile at 1:20 PM 3/2/2007

 

Every builder has their own preferences on which brands to use. It doesnt mean that the particular brand they dont like to use doesnt work. We prefer ARIAS since its worked VERY well for us. We do at least 150 motors per year using ARIAS Pistons and they have ran succesfully. Its the same for other builders using their own preffered piston brand. They work well with what they like, and others work well with other brands. We've had issues minor issues with many brands but all were fixeable and did not compromise quality. You are not going to get a 100% perfect product everytime for each person. Especially with the different ways that each engine builder does their builds.
Most of the popular brands today work good. If they didnt, then they wouldnt be in business correct?

 

Haha, CP by all means would not pay me. trust me, I give them plenty of money each month This really was not even a post on CP. It was a post on Wiseco pistons and their rings. I got some really good feedback from some and I thank you for that

Wil...right on, everything in the racing world is never going to be perfect. We all know that, it is part of racing. And it is good that we have multiple builders and multiple company's making parts for us, makes it a free world and more fun to be in

 

Hey there, Brian Nutter from Wiseco here. I'm not sure where your customer purchased the pistons. If it was from us directly, it's easier for us to get to the bottom of a component issue. If it was in the hands of a distributor for a while,there's a pretty good chance that components were borrowed from the kit and replaced with something incorrect. If these didn't come out of a sealed XX ring bag, that is what happened. IF it DID come out of a sealed Xx ring package, there is a small chance that something got mispackaged and we'll need to check it out.

I'm not really familiar with the replacement CP ring set. If it's a 1mm, 1.2mm, 2.8mm ring pack that interchanges with our Nitrided/Napier ones, it's probable that they are NPR rings that have been purchased from Wiseco or outside of the U.S. Wiseco was chosen as the sole the U.S. Distibutor of Japanese NPR rings and we sell those to several different piston and ring companies for re-branding.

Please give me an email at bnutter@wiseco.com (keep this handy folks..I try to help as much as possible). I'll issue an RMA for the pistons/rings first thing on monday and get to the bottom of it. There will be a run code on the side of the piston box that will help us figure out if it's an issue on our end. If the engine is together and functioning fine, that's ok too, but we'd appreciate the benefit of the doubt...or at least called directly instead of a post being made about "problems with Wiseco pistons and their rings" that doesn't accurately reflect the real issue.

Regards, Brian Nutter-Wiseco Automotive.

 

Always good to hear from a manufacturer.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey there, Brian Nutter from Wiseco here. I'm not sure where your customer purchased the pistons. If it was from us directly, it's easier for us to get to the bottom of a component issue. If it was in the hands of a distributor for a while,there's a pretty good chance that components were borrowed from the kit and replaced with something incorrect. If these didn't come out of a sealed XX ring bag, that is what happened. IF it DID come out of a sealed Xx ring package, there is a small chance that something got mispackaged and we'll need to check it out.
I'm not really familiar with the replacement CP ring set. If it's a 1mm, 1.2mm, 2.8mm ring pack that interchanges with our Nitrided/Napier ones, it's probable that they are NPR rings that have been purchased from Wiseco or outside of the U.S. Wiseco was chosen as the sole the U.S. Distibutor of Japanese NPR rings and we sell those to several different piston and ring companies for re-branding.

Please give me an email at bnutter@wiseco.com (keep this handy folks..I try to help as much as possible). I'll issue an RMA for the pistons/rings first thing on monday and get to the bottom of it. There will be a run code on the side of the piston box that will help us figure out if it's an issue on our end. If the engine is together and functioning fine, that's ok too, but we'd appreciate the benefit of the doubt...or at least called directly instead of a post being made about "problems with Wiseco pistons and their rings" that doesn't accurately reflect the real issue.

Regards, Brian Nutter-Wiseco Automotive.</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Thanks for the response...I do love Honda-tech and what it brings to the table! I will give you guys a call direct. Can I ask for you Brian? Also, do you feel that 28 pds of drag is acceptable? I know the pistons were bought directly from a dealer and were Wiseco rings as inside the sealed plastic they had a Wiseco instruction sheet that was pink.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Flamenco-T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">was it the XX or XC rings ? big difference between the two. I have been building customer's motor with Wiseco and ENdyn and enver had any problem, but again, I only used XX rings, never used their XC rings.

stan</TD></TR></TABLE>


So does that mean there is a cheaper ring set and a more expensive set of rings for purchase? Just wondering because that would be good to know when ordering pistons. You have to make sure when you get quoted cheaper that it comes with the better rings, not the cheap ones.

 

i dont believe xx and xc rings are of a different quality (ie cheap, etc), im pretty sure its just a case of different tension.. im sure brian can correct me if im wrong, but this is what i have been lead to believe.

 

28lbs is bad... that's for certain. Is that a dragging the piston up the bore or is that the break-away torque used to turn over the crank w/ the assembled shortblock?

As a note for the non-engine builders reading this post: Using the shortblock method is easier for most engine builders as we all have torquewrenches. The test is also more repeatable because you don't have to worry about side loading the piston. It's also easier for me to figure out what's going on because of the wide variety of engines I work with. On inline 4 cylinders, it's a bit tougher because the 2 pistons are at bdc and 2 are at tdc at the same time....which creates a problem because there is no "leverage" at this point and needed torque is high to pull/push them off this point. The required torque rapidly decreases after you cross this point. It's necessary to take the measurement when all 4 pistons are at least 45 crank degress past dwell for best repeatability.

You could call and ask for me, but I'm usually runngin around to the different departments during the day getting things done...I'd rather not have you on hold if I'm on the other side of the factory. Please email my bnutter@wiseco.com address when you get into the shop and I'll call you as soon as I get the email..

There was another question about xx versus xc rings. the XC's were "race rings" being used in all Wiseco kits until about 2004 or so. They were fazed out in our shelf stocking kits aand replaced with the XX's...which are the same thicknesses, but are nitrided on the top and napier cut in the 2nd, and also use an updated oil ring design that keeps smoke and oil consumption from occuring while maintaining the same tensions and friction. The xc's have since been updated w/ the better oil ring design, but still use the same top and 2nd as always. They are less expensive and work fine, but we like running the latest technology.


-Brian Nutter-Wiseco Automotive

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BNutter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You could call and ask for me, but I'm usually runngin around to the different departments during the day getting things done...I'd rather not have you on hold if I'm on the other side of the factory. Please email my bnutter@wiseco.com address when you get into the shop and I'll call you as soon as I get the email..
</TD></TR></TABLE>

He's not joking...i spent 3 weeks trying to call him... message box was full for two weeks. Never returned my call... had CP make us some custom pistons for the Turbo M3. Hard guy to get a hold of.

 

You never mentioned what torque numbers should be when turning the engine.
Could you please do it.

 

Sorry about not returning a call RTErnie. It's not that I don't try, but there's only one of me with several hundred phonecalls and emails a day. I do my best to forward calls I can't take to our employees best able to handle your needs. There are quite a few very qualified people within the sales dept. of Wiseco who could take your call if you ask for automotive department the next time out. Or we have distributors that can be reached...some very good ones in the BMW market.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BNutter &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">28lbs is bad... that's for certain. Is that a dragging the piston up the bore or is that the break-away torque used to turn over the crank w/ the assembled short block?

As a note for the non-engine builders reading this post: Using the short block method is easier for most engine builders as we all have torquewrenches. The test is also more repeatable because you don't have to worry about side loading the piston. It's also easier for me to figure out what's going on because of the wide variety of engines I work with. On inline 4 cylinders, it's a bit tougher because the 2 pistons are at bdc and 2 are at tdc at the same time....which creates a problem because there is no "leverage" at this point and needed torque is high to pull/push them off this point. The required torque rapidly decreases after you cross this point. It's necessary to take the measurement when all 4 pistons are at least 45 crank degress past dwell for best repeatability.

You could call and ask for me, but I'm usually runngin around to the different departments during the day getting things done...I'd rather not have you on hold if I'm on the other side of the factory. Please email my bnutter@wiseco.com address when you get into the shop and I'll call you as soon as I get the email..

There was another question about xx versus xc rings. the XC's were "race rings" being used in all Wiseco kits until about 2004 or so. They were fazed out in our shelf stocking kits aand replaced with the XX's...which are the same thicknesses, but are nitrided on the top and napier cut in the 2nd, and also use an updated oil ring design that keeps smoke and oil consumption from occuring while maintaining the same tensions and friction. The xc's have since been updated w/ the better oil ring design, but still use the same top and 2nd as always. They are less expensive and work fine, but we like running the latest technology.

-Brian Nutter-Wiseco Automotive</TD></TR></TABLE>

I spoke to Brian on the phone today and we are trying to get to the bottom of what is going on with the rings