ninesecrx

I had a local customer of mine that came to me with a set of Wiseco pistons he bought and had a new Golden Eagle block sleeved. This was a D16Z6 block with a 75.5mm bore size. I have had some issues in the past with some Arias pistons and the oil ring having too much tension, but now it happened with the Wiseco's. With just the oil ring installed, I always use a scale to pull on the piston to see how many pds it takes to get the piston to move. It took 28 pds with these rings! This is way too much and put a bunch of deflection marks on the bore. We mostly use CP pistons with their CPN rings and never have this issue with them. Has anyone else had an issue like this with the rings Wiseco provides with their pistons sets? We solved this issue by getting a set of CP rings and it fixed the issue right up!



Here you can see the lines that go up and down on the bores from too much oil ring tension. These lines are 360 deg. all the way around the cycl.

Topdawgg

well mine werent measured for weight on each piston, but i never had a problem with my wiseco pistons and their rings..

My pistons were 81.5mm

I did however notice what seemed to be alot of compression once all 4 were in... i dont know what a normal amount of compression would be, but i remember it taking alot of force to roll it over with the new pistons... there was no scoring on the cylinder walls though

non-VTEC

are you sure the oil control rings are not butting up against eachother?

95GSRTT

I once had some CP pistons that had a problem with blowing up the intake valve reliefs. Wisecos fixed the problem for me! Never had this problem.

JoePSI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95GSRTT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I once had some CP pistons that had a problem with blowing up the intake valve reliefs. Wisecos fixed the problem for me! Never had this problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

There was a bad design issue with the relief walls cracking, theres a thread in here about it. New pistons fixed this issue by removing the sides of the valve reliefs. My CP's were mande 7/06 and incorporate the new design.

ninesecrx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95GSRTT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I once had some CP pistons that had a problem with blowing up the intake valve reliefs. Wisecos fixed the problem for me! Never had this problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks, good thing I filed down the reliefs on these Wiseco's as well so there would not be a problem either! But really I do not see what this has to do with CP valve reliefs? I was just asking if anyone had this issue before? I plan to call Wiseco and see what the issue might be? The rings are not butting, there is .025 clearance on them.

95GSRTT

I stated that my wiseco's did not have a problem at all..... I figured that had something to do with what you posted....correct me if Im wrong here. I just stated I switched from my broken CP's to these current Wiseco's and didn't have said problem. Nor have I ever heard of someone having the valve reliefs breaking on their Wisecos, but i guess filing them down cant hurt.

Maybe you read it wrong that I was stating my Wiseco's did not have a problem with their valve reliefs breaking. I was stating i never had a problem with the rings on my wisecos.

paulzy

iTrader: (1)

Mike, not trying to knock you or anything but the way you worded your post sounds like you are trying to raise CP up and are knocking Wiseco and Arias down. I too have had this problem with JE replacement rings for my JE pistons but it was a mistake. I was given a set of 81.25mm oil rings and the pistons are 81mm. I put them in and used the scale and they were at like 19 pounds or something, called JE and got everything squared away and came out okay. Maybe call Wiseco because maybe packaging accidently put the wrong rings in the box. This could be a problem with a disgruntled employer that slipped a few through like this and could help them find problems before they get bigger.

hopware

Just for my own education, what is the methodology you are using to check this parameter? Are you using a spring scale, attached to the wrist pin, to pull the piston down the bore? What is the range of readings that you consider to be acceptable?

RudeLude

subscribed, about to do a build myselft bump for more info

JDogg

i have never seen this... maybe you have the wrong rings.

dumb question but did you oil the cylinder walls?

PrecisionH23a

Are the ringlands properly cut?

I had some custom JE`s made years ago and I couldn't even get the rings in the ringlands. It's probably not the case for you.... but it wouldn't hurt to check if the rings don't move as freely as they should when in place. I would either guess the piston ringlands were not cut deep enough if you are getting .025 when you measure just the oil rings in the cyl walls. That or wrong parts are involved.

On a side note, Why is it that 90% of the time when customers supply their own parts problems always happen? lol

OceanStateTuning

I have a 4g63 block I am building for a customer and it has Wisecos and I have the same problem, PM me and let me know what Wiseco says when you call them.

Never again will I use Wiseco

CP

david@didrace.com

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrecisionH23a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">On a side note, Why is it that 90% of the time when customers supply their own parts problems always happen? lol</TD></TR></TABLE>

We charge a higher labor rate if customers bring in their own parts just for that reason.

Flamenco-T

was it the XX or XC rings ? big difference between the two. I have been building customer's motor with Wiseco and ENdyn and enver had any problem, but again, I only used XX rings, never used their XC rings.

stan

wpgredteg

im having the same problem with my arias pistons/rings..Mind you that this the first motor im building with forged internals, so I wasnt sure if it was normal to need so much pressure to get the piston to move. what should I do? get new rings?

wpgredteg

also how bad are those lines going up and down the cylinder wall? Enough to need a new hone job?

:Josh:

I built a Buick V6 a couple of months ago with Wisecos and had the same problem. I contacted Wiseco about it and they said it wouldn't be a problem with that much tension. I checked it with a spring scale and it was around 30 lbs to move the piston in the bore with just the oil rings on it. No butting issues with the rings either. I alerted the customer and he said he would try it out even though I didn't like it, he didn't want to buy new rings. He's been running it for a couple of months now without problems. Went a 10.8 in a GN with street tires. No smoking and good compression #'s.

:Josh:

I still don't like the idea of that much tension though.

JDogg

is that piston a full round piston or does it strutted??

ill be assembling a motor with wiseco's at the end of next week, i can check the rings on that one when i do it. but i do know they have high tension as well as lower tension rings, maybe you got the high tension rings.

Boostfed

Mike, have you EVER EVER EVER had a problem with a CP piston, let alone did you post about it too?

Maybe like this post

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/1901519

JDogg

yeah, i think id rather have high tension oil rings than broken pistons

ninesecrx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yeah, i think id rather have high tension oil rings than broken pistons </TD></TR></TABLE>

Broken pistons are a thing of the past. Even if there was an issue, there has been a design change and this will never be an issue for anyone else. This is not a post on who has better product, just wanted to know if others have had the same problem I did. I am not trying to boost sales in any way. The last 3 motors that we assembled for customers that had Arias pistons, all 3 times we had to get new rings. We now have a sign in our shop stating "no Arias builds, no exceptions!" To answer another question, I have never once had 1 issue with CP rings. If I did, I would be honest about that. Yes, bores were oiled well. Yes, the ring lands on the Wiseco's were fine, they actually use the same style ring pack as CP. I felt lucky and just bought some rings from CP and it fixed the problem right up. What some or most of you might not know is most every motor that came out of Laskey Racing has been and was built by me. Of course with the help and know how of my dad, this was a much easier task! My dad was a very smart man and has taught me so much on engine building and we both shared the love for this passion. He spent a lot of time on this board helping people out and making posts on engine building and setting up parts correctly. The reason I am now making a post on this is because as a shop owner, I have to be aware of these situations so when I make a quote for people using their own parts...I can make them aware of possible extra cost. Also I just wanted to make others aware of this as a possible problem since it is a tech. board. Once again, I have never had an issue with The CP's...not to say there never would be, but just asking because we have had this issue a few times with Arias and was pretty bummed now to see it with Wiseco. I feel Wiseco makes a great piston and am in no way stating this to down talk their products, just wanted to know if this is an issue that others have had and I feel others should be aware of this as well.

JDogg

which ring pack did you orignally get w/the wisecos?

ninesecrx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">which ring pack did you originally get w/the wisecos?</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is where I am gonna take some fault, I already got rid of the box and the package that the rings came in I can tell you this, I don't know if they always come like this, but the oil ring came in a white envelope and the top and middle came in a plastic bag. The top and middle ring say N150 on them.