I'm running a JRSC at 9psi and a hondata 2b. I'm not too happy with the system right now. I'm hoping that you guys will be able to help me out

1) Starting: Sometimes my car just doesn't want to start or it will start and then stall right away. It only seems to happen when the engine is at least partly warm. If the engine is cold, it starts fine all the time.

2) Idling: This may be a related problem. Every once and a while when I'm stopped my rpm's fluctuate a little (600rpm-800rpm) sometimes it will suddenly drop and my car will stall. It will start again if I give is some gas. I don't think it is a vacuum leak, as my car still makes good vacuum during decelleration (~22hg) and is at about 19hg at idle

3) Bogging: My car boggs very badly under 2800rpm, gets better to about 3300rpm and then runs like an absolute dream. In this RPM range (under 2800) my crappy A/F gauge shows it running very rich but the lambda sensors shows me running lean, very lean. We tried richening it up but that seemed to make the bogging worse if anything. Then we tried playing with the ignition timing a little but that didn't seem to do anything. We are suspicious that it may be iginiton system itself as I'm running a totally stock ignition. Do you guys have any ideas?

Thanks in advance for your help.
-A

 

Honda stock ignition systems will support you up to 400+hp, so you can rule that out unless you have other reasons to suspect it being faulty.

Did these problems just start up with the hondata install? Was anything else installed at the same time? Are you throwing any codes?

Is the bad bogging at full or partial throttle? What are you using to richen it up?

What lambda meter are you using, and what are the values? Most importantly, is it a wideband unit like FJO, Motec, etc. Fuel pressure and injectors?

My first guess is that you are drowning the engine.....

 

Well the problems started after I installed 9psi stepper pulley, cam gears (set at 0 and 0) right now, Injen SRI, DC JDM 4-1 header, 3" Thermal exhaust, hondata intake manifold gasket, and port matching the intake manifold.

The bogging is only under boost. When I hit boost under 2800rpm it boggs but feels fine as long as I'm not in boost.

The tuner is richening up with the hondata. Increasing the fuel at the points under 3000rpm.

The lambda unit we were using is a wideband motec. i'm not sure the exact readings of the meter but I think that it ranged anywhere from 16-21.

 

Proton = Archie???

 

Proton = Archie???

 

whoa! Find out of those numbers are right. Thats way way way too lean. I would not even recommend driving the car if those are your numbers at full throttle, definitely not in boost. If those are part throttle or deceleration numbers then its ok.

Ok so did you have the hondata in before on a smaller pulley and it ran fine? If so your problems are mostly likely either timing off and/or too lean if using the same 6psi map.

 

Yeah I know. I'm almost thinking that the lambda meter is off. My tuner guy can't believe that I am running that lean. Right now, I'm running more fuel below 3000rpm than I am at like 5000rpm when I'm at WoT!

I've ordered a fjo O2 sensor for my car though, so I guess we will see if his meter is just way off or something.

Assuming that my a/f is alright though, could a bad ignition cause this problem? You you recommend doing the ignition anyways or would it be a waste of money? Thanks again

 

Quick questions:

Did you relocate the MAP sensor to the manifold side of the compressor? Is your IAT sensor on the manifold side of the compressor? What injectors are you using? Did you ditch the JRSC rising rate fuel regulator and relay assembly? Are you trying to use any of Oscars or other newsgroup "trickery" in conjunction with the Hondata? What fuel pump(s) are you using? ... ETC... Give us all the info you have...


[Modified by B20C5 Turbo, 2:04 AM 6/29/2002]

 

Yes, my MAP sensor was relocated and my IAT sensor is directly on the manifold. I'm using 440cc injectors. I ditched the rising rate FPR, I have an 1:1 regulator now. I'm not familiar with any sort of trickery to be used in conjuction with the hondata. I'm using the upgraded JR fuel pump.

My car ran fine with just the stock (6psi) JRSC kit. I started to have this bogging problem only after I got the stuff I listed earlier put on (stepper pulley, intake, header, exhaust, cam gears, hondata manifold gasket). These were all done at once.

Also, when I'm bogging, I don't hear any kind of detonation. Granted, my Thermal exhaust is VERY loud, but I don't hear a thing! I would think that with the VERY lean a/f I am apparently running I would get some major detonation. Also, my spark plugs don't show that anything is amiss. The are a nice tan, slightly black, color and are still gapped properly. If I was running as lean as the lambda meter was saying you would think that the electrodes would show something, especially seeign that I do most of my driving under 3000rpm. Another thing is that there is no hint of black smoke coming out of my exhaust, even during all this bogging. Therefore, I can't be running that rich even though we are putting ridiculous amounts of fuel in during that time. To me it seems like a bunch of contradicting observations.

It is very weird in that once I hit ~3000rpm, the car runs great. If I gas it enough to go into boost the car will bog and bog and once I hit ~3000rpm, everything smoothens out and the car pulls hard.

 

i have the EXACT SAME problem.. hondata with 440s (well i just switched to 550s, i'm not sure if it still happens or not).. car ALWAYS starts fine when cold first thing in the morning, starts fine if it's warm i.e. just drove it within the past 30 mins, but if i let it sit for between 30mins and oh 8 hours (i.e. a day at work) then it's hard to start 90% of the time.. ******* weird....

i'm gonna play with my cranking settings and see if i can make it better, i've messed iwth it a little and found no differences . I do find that if i give it a little throttle when starting that i never have to worry about it dying out, plus i'll hold the starter on a little bit longer than neccessry to make sure it's actualy started (probably bad for the starter motor??)

-Xerxes

 

Exactly. if is blip the throttle it will start fine. Then I actually have to keep the throttle slightly depressed (ie. to get ~1200rpm) then shift it into gear drive like 2 seconds and it it fine again. If I don't keep the throttle slightly depressed my rpm's will bounce between ~500rpm to 900rpm - sometimes stalling again and other times levelling back out at 800rpm.

 

Um... yeah, you're too rich below 3k. I don't care what that Motec sais... Starting hard at half/warm bogs like crap when you give it gas below 3k. Think about it. You'd need less gas at 1-3k rpms then you would at 4k. So, why is it that your cars runs fine after 3k when it actually has less gas to work with??? Take some fuel out below 3k. Oh yeah, I bet if you let it idle and take a whif of your tail pipe it's very rich. I had the same problems and I have a friend running 450's with VAFC hack that has startup issues just like you. I don't know why the Motec is saying lean unless it's too rich to be able to read it and it's just lost it's mind. Also, remember that the o2 sensor has to be up to temp to read correctly... If you have fuel dumping on it, it'll cool off some, hence a bad reading... usually lean. The stock sensor has a heater circuit on it that keeps it up to temp. I can't say for sure, but I don't think the Motec has that... Just take some fuel out... Also, with those injectors, you should run 40 psi at idle... with vacume attached... (fuel press)

Hope this helps...