PM-Performance

I have been driving the car a little here and there, i put like 150 miles on it maybe. I have been having an issue with it though. Im hoping its tuning related or lack there of. we worked on the start up maps for a while to get running and stay running. Then we moved onto some of the partial throttle tuning and i think we tuned it to a decent like 13-14:1 partial throttles and kinda left it like that becuase we were running out of time.

Now the issue i am having is whenever i start the car up when its cold, its a bitch to keep it running. I gotta keep on the gas for a little until the engine heats up a little then it kicks over and idles like a dream . So im assuming thats the cold start issue or something ? Also when its trying to keep idling it smokes. Hard to tell if its condensation or smoke, but it smells toxic. I have no cat or resonators or antything so im sure that dont help. Also my evap and charcoal canister is all gone. when it warms up it smokes alot alot less and runs fine for a little. Then as i drive a little it seems that when i pull to a light or stop somewhere and let it run , it will idle nice for a few seconds, then it will get a lumpy idle. Sometimes it will shut off and sometimes it wont. When driving the car feels great though. Someone behind me said it gives off a little smoke when i downshift,but doesnt look too bad. I checked and im not losing any oil or coolant, no over heating issues or anything. I did a compression test on the motor again and 200 straight across all cyls. checked timing and its dead on. plugs look great, the electrodes are a nice light brown color, but the threads are black. no vac leaks that i can find . the rotor and cap look great. . .

Does this sound like it just needs to be tuned more and that should take care of it ?

TIA

BringIT

I've had a lot of idle issues in the past..

1. Check for a vacuum leak (I had a TB gasket leak causing a serious fluctuating idle)
2. Adjust the idle screw, reset the ecu.
3. Make sure the TPS voltage is correct, reset ecu.
4. Make sure IAC is working.
5. OBD2/1 conversion? unplug evap? worked for me, reset ecu.
6. Plug in original ecu to see if it idles (if it does, could possibly be tuning)

PM-Performance

i took all the evap stuff out , so i cant mess with that really.
yes it is obd2-1

i played with the idle screw, but i didnt reset the ecu, i didnt know you needed to to have it set the changes.

i checked for all vac leaks, everything is sealed well from what i can see.
if there was a leak from the throttle body to the manifold would you be able to feel the leak from it? i did put a new manifold on and cleaned up the flange pretty good from what i remeber. I felt around it to see if i felt any leaks and didnt feel anyting.
Ill check the TPS though, didnt think of that. Im not throwing any codes for anything i know that much

Also i cant plug the stock ecu back in , im running 880's and the thing garunteed wont start, lol

BringIT

forgot.. also make sure the throttle cable isn't too tight causing the engine to idle high, then making the ecu try to compensate.

This will also help..

http://hondata.com/techidle.html

BringIT

If it's a bad leak you will be able to feel it. If it's a small leak, you might be able to hear it. Spray carb cleaner around the TB and if the engine sound changes like it's going to stall, there's a leak.

If you just changed the IM, it could be the IM gasket also.

damn.. those are big injectors.. hmm.. I'm running 450's but the car was able to idle fine with the stock ecu as a test.

PM-Performance

that deff gives me some more info to go on . thanks.

the whole open loop thing confuses me though. i think we put it back in closed loop, i dunno if thats part of the prob though too .
how do you adjust the voltage for the TPS?

the throttle cable doesnt seem to be too tight, but it is a little weird. i have the JG manifold and the bracket they give is crap, so i used the old throttle bracket off my old ITR manifold and the way it runs it slightly rubs the #4 runner before it hits the throttle body. it doesnt look like it obstructs it though and there is a tiny bit of slack in it

DaveF

HT user BONESTCKCIVIC <--i built his car... well he is running 720cc injectors in his car, on a DFI gen 7...i was over his house a few months ago, and his car was a real PITA to keep it running as well. but after the car warmed up everything was cool.

i belive a change in weather has alot to do with it. and throws off the "idle tune" if it were up to me, i wouldnt worry about it.....and call it a "luxery of havin a race car" lol

goodluck.

PM-Performance

i would like to , but when we get warm weekends like this, it drives me nuts when it stalls on me at an intersection. im trying to pimp some hoes in the punanni mobile and i look like a dork when it shuts off, lol. cramping my style.

for real though its driving me nuts. when we did the partial throttles it was prob single digit weather. but Hondata says it should make the changes? i dunno .

BringIT

search HT for the TPS adj. stuff a lot of info on here about it. J

Just becareful when slotting the heads to remove the TPS. I had 1 come out easy.. the other.. half the head snapped off causing me to have to drill and retap the TB. 5 minute job turned out to be an hour.

My tuner also said changes in weather may effect your idle a little bit.. but not majorly.. your car shouldn't stall because of the changes in weather..

yea, it's tough to pimp hoes with a bad idle lol..

1fstevo

What kind of engine management?
What size of injectors you use?
I am constantly adjusting my IAT fuel correction, idle base map, and warmup enrichment to combat non perfect idle and warmup.

PM-Performance

Hondata 4b, Seimen deka 880's

1fstevo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr206 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Then as i drive a little it seems that when i pull to a light or stop somewhere and let it run , it will idle nice for a few seconds, then it will get a lumpy idle. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That I can tell you it's not a mechnical problem. You probably have to tune the idle and temp fuel correction alittle to get it straight.

1fstevo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr206 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now the issue i am having is whenever i start the car up when its cold, its a bitch to keep it running. I gotta keep on the gas for a little until the engine heats up a little then it kicks over and idles like a dream . </TD></TR></TABLE>

That is a crank fuel and warmup enrichment problem. But then, do you have adjustment on Hondata to adjust that?

PM-Performance

im not sure, i was told it has cold start maps you can play with? i dont do the tuning myself. i just wanted to narrow down if it was that it needed more tuning work , or if it coulda been something mechanical

Johnyquest

You need to **** with the tuning. Mine idle's really low when the fan is off. If i keep the fan on (vent), it ups the idle to 750 instead of 650 and idles great. Bump up your idle, first off, and secondly, you must have a problem in the tuning, especially if it runs good when it's warm. It's gotta be a stupid setting somewhere. Don't give up

PM-Performance

ok , thas cool . Ill see if i can get someone down here to help me out one of these weekends.

Slater

Your solution is simple. The reason this is happening is the TB. The OBD1 tbs have the FITV on the bottom that create a slight leak until the car is warmed up. The OBD2 tbs do not have this because the OBD2 ECU handles the idle differently.

You slapped an OBD1 ECU onto an OBD2 engine (including the TB) so the OBD1 ECU expects the FITV to handle the cold idle. The FITV is not there so you get super low cold idling including stalling.

You can replicate the same behavior on an OBD1 car by installing an OBD2 tb.

Your solution, if you want to keep the OBD1 ECU, is to either install a stock OBD1 tb, or install an aftermarket TB that has a provision for a FITV. I believe the BBK tbs have this - there's a blockoff plate that you bolt on if you are using the tb on an OBD2 car, or bolt on the stock FITV if it's goign on an OBD1 car.

I think BBK tbs are available in 62mm and 70mm if I remember correctly.

Anyways, that's what's going on with your cold idle.

- Slater

1fstevo

That could be a possible contribution to the problem he's having but I think there is more problem in the tuning than the hardware.

Slater

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Evo Hybrid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That could be a possible contribution to the problem he's having but I think there is more problem in the tuning than the hardware. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, tuning can only help to an extent. Overfueling at idle and also ignition timing will cause poor idle, but the fact that it's idling perfectly when warm is the TB. I know that for a fact because I went through the exact same thing as him and it took me 2 years to figure it out. I tried everytnig including tuning.

Tuning will definitely help, but the problem is that the cold idle code is not in his OBD1 ECU like it was in the OBD2 ECU. You can't account for the missing idle routines by playing with fuel and timing. The only way to account for cold idle is by using the FITV.

- Slater

PM-Performance

well i have been running this ecu for like a year and 1/2 or so and never had this prob, but i was only using 550's and had the car tuned right away.
it doesnt idle perfectly when warm , but will kick over and idle nicely for a little and then when im at lights it gets lumpy again and stalls.

DC2R714

I have been running basically the same fuel setup as Pete and I have no idle issues. I have 720cc injectors and still using my stock OBDII tb. At cold idle my car will raise rpm to 1500 until warm then goes back down to normal and purs like a kitten. I doubt that is the problem. I believe it is a tuning issue.

Slater

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DC2R714 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have been running basically the same fuel setup as Pete and I have no idle issues. I have 720cc injectors and still using my stock OBDII tb. At cold idle my car will raise rpm to 1500 until warm then goes back down to normal and purs like a kitten. I doubt that is the problem. I believe it is a tuning issue.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed. In that case it does sound like a tuning issue.

- Slater

racerxadam

the map is in open loop so no 02 feedback, I was under the impression that you were going to the dyno rather soon. The air/fuel ratio at idle was a solid 13.8-14.2
As a fix until you get to the dyno I would try changing the target idle in 50 rpm increments and see how that works. Sorry, i have been busy with school and some other local jobs so I haven't been able to find a weekend that I can get up there.

Mase

Bad Tune.

StrikeAnywhere

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mase &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Bad Tune. </TD></TR></TABLE>

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