aleEvo

hello guys
test some feedback?
I would switch from my pro1 cam to the new gsc t1
for a better power band

redflaredcrx90

there are to many variables.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Which turbocharger? purpose, boost pressure level?

But yes... MANY variables indeed. Check out the GSC thread for Gringotegra and other users to help.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

What's the setup? It's not as simple as this one is better than that one. I would imagine seeing you have pro1's you've got a turbocharger that flows more than 65lbs/min but can't be sure without specs.

aleEvo

wondering if anyone has a direct feedback between pro1 vs gsc t1
I noticed that gsc build a good gain medium
even on different setup behave about the same way
https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/g0ats-b18c-ek-hatch-gsc-cams-3140157/
https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/gsc-turbo-cams-vs-01-itr-cams-better-spool-30whp-gain-3042127/
both small decrease on about 5500 rpm
old thread pro1
https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/dyno-comparison-skunk2-pro-1s-vs-ctr-camshafts-2520138/
it seems that the real gains are only after 7500 rpm
sorry my inglish

aleEvo

my setup essential isI am going to rebuild to an old break)
b16 slevved 85mm 9rc
cps piston(made in italy)
stock crank
pauter rods
b16 port head
ferrea plus 1mm oversize
pro series valve spring
pro1 cam o in +2 ex(no degrees but I will soon)
pro series cam pulley
edelbrock x
skunk74mm body
id1000
walbro 400
precision 750 intercooler
water meth direct port
synapse top mount v-band
44m tial
3.5" full exhaust
precision cea 5858 with upgrade compressor wheel extreme tuners 11 blade 63/87mm
(maybe like a hypothetical 3082 gtx but with little larger compressor wheel)
aem v2
aem epm
okada k20 coil

aleEvo

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

Have you ran the motor yet?

I see a aem epm there. How do you like it? How is it sync'ng timing?

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

Looks really clean btw

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

gains are well before 7500...

we can't help you unless you post your engine specs..
any supporting mods (ARP headstuds, ARP mainstuds, rod and main clearances, p2w, ring gaps)
what intake manifold, throttle body size, what ignition, what EMS?
What trans, clutch/flywheel, etc?

what head? any port work? what springs/retainers/locks/valves are you using?
Turbo setup... what manifold, wastegate (and size, brand), downpipe size, exhaust, and most important...

We need full turbo specs... what model/brand?... or, what compressor wheel, turbine wheel/shaft, center section (journal or ball bearing), what size/style compressor housing(t04b, t04e, t04s, ported shroud) comp. housing a/r, which turbine housing (turbine inlet flange size *t25,t3,t4,v band, etc*, turbine outlet flange, turbine housing a/r)

What pressure ratio/amount of boost do you plan on running?

are any of the turbo components heat wrapped, ceramic coated, turbine blanket, etc?

What's the purpose of the car, what rpm range will the motor operate in

we need to know the most precise details of your build and your desired goals/powerband to be able to help you

On paper and in real life, the GSC T1s shine. The big improvement comes from them re-profiling the primary (low cam) lobes as well as their improvement and profile of the vtec lobe.

I say hands down that the GSC T1 is a better cam than the Pro1s... It looks like Suck2 designed most of their parts, including their cams, around an NA setup more than a pure turbo build

In my opinion, GSC makes one of the best "shelf" turbo cams available on the market today, with a vey reasonable point.

k

aleEvo

epm for now everything seems ok
I had problems with twin fire (two of them are burned and passed to k20 coil)
sync'ng for timing you can lock in degrees function aem v2
checked with the timing light ...... I think 15 or 16 degrees

aleEvo

my setup and what is written above is essentially
I would try to make my biggest torque curve and power

aleEvo

I'm sorry if I can not communicate well what I think ..... sometimes use an online translator

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

What you're using as a translator is fine. better than most, so you're ok.

Your torque curve regardless would be severely effected by the fact that you're using a top mount manifold, which concentrates its efforts on exhaust VOLUME to create top end power, and not torque, so even with your turbocharger change (which is not bad for what you're trying to do) with either cam may not be "the most", until that area is addressed if you choose... (I agree, the engine setup does look rather clean and purpose-built. Nice going on the Okada Projects Coils.)

I think the GSC T1 will assist with that torque curve quite a bit (yes, everyone knows I'm a little biased), but that's because of the fact that the T1 camshaft's profile is a bit more towards lower end torque creation than upper end power for mid-framed turbos like the 5858 (or its variants), than the Pro1, and you don't need to change cam gear settings outside of 0,0 to do so. The Pro1 is a top end power maker, but I think the T1 is more of a better torque-band creator.

I currently have the T1s and I believe they worked better for those smaller displacement B series that have the smaller sub 60lbs/min mid-framed turbo applications.

This comparison is asked by a lot of people who have used the Pro1 before, so you're not alone in these questions.

aleEvo

thanks theshodan
I had already thought of this
change would be good with a ramhorn (I really like fullrace and its flow wastgate)
and go from edelbrok x ........ to ultra street skunk manifold(see below)
http://www.jhpusa.com/store/pc/viewP...dproduct=11719
I'm really willing to lose high-power, but gain a better power band

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Good choices..

BrothaSit

Sorry about jacking your thread aleEvo, but I'm debating which cams to go with too. Right now, i have stock b16 cams and I'm making 502whp 327tq at 19lb on e85. Tuner advise me to get the pro1 because he gets great results with them. One of my buddies have the pro1 in his car made great power but the driveablilty of the car was not that great (idles like ****). I daily my car and my goal is to make the same power but on pump gas (93 oct). Here's my setup.

-B18B block with stock crank
-84mm bore JG magilla sleeves
-9.1 CP pistons
-Eagle rods
-ARP headstuds
-stock cast type r head
-Supertech springs and retainers
-BWR flat face valves
-AEBS intake manifold
-Skunk2 70mm TB
-precision 1200cc injectors
-255 walbro
-B&M fuel pressure regulator
-rcautoworks mini ramhorn
-precision sc6152e turbo
-Tial 38mm wastegate
-3" turbo back exhaust
-2.5" IC pipes
-Stock ignition
-tuned on Ectune

So far, I've seen alot of great reviews with GSC cams and the price is within my budget ($530 shipped) versus pro1 ($615 shipped).

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

That's just because your tuner isn't used to these. Imagine when he first saw the Pro1 thread that Evans made back in 2009, he'd have said.. "CTRs will make great results".... "Your buddy too."...

If you're looking at stock idle characteristics when it comes to T1 camshafts, forget it. You want real camshafts to do a specific job, they're not going to act like stock camshafts that do a standard job... Not because they're "too aggressive", but because in order to get certain characteristics, you have to ditch the old ones..

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Any serious cam profile won't idle like stock... IT WILL LOPE, to a point

most people that install cams never tune the idle, so the car idles like ****

Exampe: Our C6 Z06 road course car makes 600rwhp and 590lbft... has a serious Katech Torquer cam in it... On first start-up, un-tuned, it idled like a peripheral port rotary. We spent a lot of time tuning fueling and ignition at the idle points and now you can barely tell it has a cam in it.... It has a slight lope and a much more aggressive exhaust note profile but nothing like it had on first start up... Occasionally it will start camming hard and shake the car but it really only happens during initial warmup.

So the pro1s (and the larger S2 cam offerings) as well as the GSC T1s and other companies similar grinds and more aggressive grinds will lope and have an idle that is not stock (with no tuning) but with good tuning you can get drive-ability 99% back to stock, I guarantee it.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

I'll pull up the before and after vids (don't know about before) but the car is so loud at idle it muffles out the Go-Pro Hero3 Blacks mic at 6ft in a case lol.

just to show you how getting a wild cam to idle and drive as close to stock as possible is all in the tuning.

Personally for my ls/vtec build I'll be going GSC T1s for the time being... The goal is to run the cam on much smaller turbos than 99% of Honda guys run with these cams to show how much they can benefit a 55lb/min or smaller turbo to show how they can improve response and torque on basically every (well tuned) setup.

Eventually I'm going to work with DDTECH on making a custom cam to suit my needs 100%, whether I keep vtec or use vtec killers.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Not with GSC. If you try to tune the "lope out", you'll get less-than-desirable results. You can do it for emissions or whatever, but don't try and "tune out" the GSC lope. The behaviour of the car will not be to the user's liking at all.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

I would consider the GSC T1 lope to be mild and a non-issue when it comes to how the car behaves at low rpm/load and on the street... so I wouldn't do anything but make the idle solid, so my light flywheel and the cams don't cause the car to die when the engine idles down/coming to a stop

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

That's not my point. When you try to change idle characteristics on the GSC's, trying to smooth em out makes the drivability and powerband worse.

You may look at GSCs as a "mild" lope, but most of these blokes look at "mild" as "SUPER AGGRESSIVE".

Mine sound...... meh.



g0at - when he tried to "degree" the camshaft.. he actually lost power

When g0at set everything back to 0,0 and had the idle to where it was intended

His result when the "lope" was put back in..



Easy peazy, nice and breezy.

aleEvo

what about for the v2v with gsc t1 and +1 mm oversize valves, with gear cam at ...... 0/0

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

good luck, you'll be spending a lot of time with a degree wheel and a dial indicator to keep from hitting the valves (you need to degree them with the VTEC rocker locked)

just because the cam gears say 0,0 doesn't mean the cam is zeroed out mechanically


I guess coming from motorsports and the range of cams I hear, they are mild to me lol

This isn't our z06 but its the same cam with no idle tuning... and it only has 110 degrees of lobe separation lol. Every recording I did of our z06 on initial startup killed the mics on a flip cam, go-pro, and every cellphone we had lol


This is our youtube channel for the Z06, no initial startup videos after cam install. We did put the videos up of Andy Pilgrim flogging it around the track at Katech's Track Attack event this year.
The videos of the Akapovic exhaust are the most current, we did just put a set of Pfadt long tubes on it and it changed the whole exhaust note. We still get some lope, like when you hear t miss multiple times.

https://www.youtube.com/user/wstaab7

So you can see why when I hear the GSC lope I just kinda shrug lol. I need a Katech torquer profile clone for my ls/vtec... DDTECH, please? lol