<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by postman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">in the pics of the head. i might be mistaken but i see crazy tool marks in the combustion chamber. which would lead to hotspots. also the ports look to smoth which would cut fown on atomization of the air/fiel mix. also the divider looks like they tried to knife edge, but didnt work out right.</TD></TR></TABLE>I don't see anything that would be a problem in the chambers.Trust me if you got a head from somebody who hand ported them they would be alot smother no matter what grit they used.I don't know why everybody makes such a big deal about port finish it really doesn't have that effect on power,rough or smooth.

 

pictures really seem to exagerate tooling marks. i doubt you can feel those marks at all.

 

i would never make a intake port smoother than a 80 grit.. the fuel will mot mix with the air correctly and could adversely effect all the good work that was done

 

At the shop I worked at last year we sanded int/exh ports to 120 grit on some and left the cnc tool marks on others for Titan's race cars and it made no difference what so ever in power that I know of.Like I said people make too much of it.

On a personal note,I saw on this thread where someone mentioned that his cnc program was copied from an Eyndn head.That really bothers me if it's true.I've had work copied and it really sucks to have your hard work stolen.I hope it's not true and he digitized his own work,or at least gives Larry his cut.


Modified by Fkned at 12:20 AM 2/4/2008

 

this was a stab thread man! Don't listen to crap people say Jason is a stand up guy and doesn't do this **** unless he has permission!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cigrafix2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this was a stab thread man! Don't listen to crap people say Jason is a stand up guy and doesn't do this **** unless he has permission! </TD></TR></TABLE>Like I said I hope it's not true.But in reality only Jason can truely answer that question.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRVRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In most cases a shiny finish does nothing for flow, I have ported my own heads and spent hours on a flow bench playing with designs and surfaces finishes.
The intake needs to have somewhat of a coarse finish to help tumble the gas/air mix. Polishing the exhaust and combustion chambers does very little, the theory is to prevent carbon build up. </TD></TR></TABLE>

+1

Everything published in the tech section of Hot Rod magazine in the 60's and 70's, nothing new taking place here folks!

I'd want to polish the chamber, though, same reason you remove sharp edges off of pistons. Aside from that I see absolutely nothing wrong and actually like the small ripple tooling marks visible in the pictures of the port - boundary effect is good when there is a fuel/air suspension present.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cigrafix2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't listen to crap people say Jason is a stand up guy</TD></TR></TABLE>Just talked to him and have to agree

 

I agree Jason is a stand up guy never had any issue with him or his heads. Just built a gsr precision SC61 turbo motor @26psi 519hp. The heads are definitely not a copy of any kind of head its all original design. Don't even sweat the haters Jason keep doin what you good sh??

 

Like I said before, the whole Endyn thing I don't know about, when I was helping him build his engine, he told me about the head and said it was a Endyn copied head. I could care less, I am not trying to bad mouth Performance CNC at all. That customer of mine could have just been blowing smoke up my *** to make it sound like he got a good deal who knows. Regardless, like I also said before CNC porting is a good thing, and I can give props to Performance CNC for helping to take our sport to the next level.

 

now your speaking like you should have in your 1st post... Dont ever assume your customer is telling the truth and come on here and bad mouth someone. Jason does great work and we will always use his services...

 

Look i am not here to take stabs at cnc port or anyone else, but when a customer has a head done and then it is brought to me to look at because he sees things wrong with it. I will express my opinion. The head was filthy, had shavings though out the entire casting, there were shavings in the coolant passages and thoughout the rest of the head. There is a sharp edge across the short turn that would take a couple minutes to fix by hand. There was small pieces surrounding the combustion chamber and spark plug holes that would have fell off into the engine because the head was not gone through. There were just a couple other things i see that could have been done better or i should say if a more careful inspection was done before the head was sent back all of this would have been avoided. The customer has asked for flow sheets for the head and has yet to recieve them, he asked upfront before he had the head done if he would recieve them and was told yes, and he has yet to recieve them. There were a couple other things that stood out about the work on the valve job but hey, to each their own.

 

Miller you took a stab on him here and on b20vtec you obviously have a problem with him tooo bad you wont say what it is. Hey why dont you flow the cncport head on your bench and let us know what you get for readings.. Hell I will even pay you to do it...


Miller and company must not be busy @ their shop they have all the time in the world to just sit there and wait for post about Jason @ cncport.com to just come out and trash talk... Miller I have heard some stuff about you and I dont come on here talking and putting your business out there.

I hope you took pictures of that head and are not just talking out of your ***. I know Jason would have taken care of your customer if that had been the case. Did your customer even call Jason and let him know??? I know Jason would have made good on it...


Good luck in all you do Miller because trash talking people to make yourself look good just doesnt work!





Modified by cigrafix2 at 2:04 PM 2/4/2008

 

Here at Midnight Performance we have used a few of Jason's heads and there was never any metal shavings in any part of the casting, weather it be the combustion chambers, spark plug holes, coolant passages. The heads are completely cleaned of any shavings. The heads are "NOT" Endyne copies.

 

ohh my god, grow up man.I am not trash talking anyone to benefit myself. I am telling it how it how i see it. All i am saying is that i was dissapointed in the fit and finish of the head thats all. My standards are very high. I dont think its a bad job i am just saying that if it was looked over a little better a couple of the little things could have been caught.

Will i flow the head on my bench, yes. The customer is paying me to do that. Are we going to dyno this head vs. another head, yes.

 

Sweet in for results! Hopefully your honest about it. I would love to see it tested against one of your heads..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cigrafix2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sweet in for results! Hopefully your honest about it. I would love to see it tested against one of your heads.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

sorry but the results are property of the person paying for them. If you would like to have results please send me one of your heads and i will send the results to you.

thanks, Miller

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by miller &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ohh my god, grow up man.I am not trash talking anyone to benefit myself. I am telling it how it how i see it. All i am saying is that i was dissapointed in the fit and finish of the head thats all. My standards are very high. I dont think its a bad job i am just saying that if it was looked over a little better a couple of the little things could have been caught.

Will i flow the head on my bench, yes. The customer is paying me to do that. Are we going to dyno this head vs. another head, yes.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
I hope this want directed towards me, cause I didnt say anyone was talking ****

 

I wouldnt mail you a piece of gum!

 

The way you guys make it sound, it seems like it's just a copy of a another porters work. Am I the only guy that find this wrong ?

 

Some of you guys really need to open your eyes & be a little more open minded.

All of the information that everyone is blabing about with the fuel atomization & how smooth the intake runners & ports are is juat about irrilavant to the motors that we're running today..

Our injectors are squirting the fuel damn near directly into the cylinders!!! Fuel doesn't travel the lenth of the intake mani & through the entire intake ports of heads on our fuel injected motors..

your welcome for the wake-up call!

(throw your carberated concepts in the trash)

 

 

It's the way the industry works. It's called competition. If there was anything going on here beyond a solid understanding of practical fluid flow and some trial and error then there would be something to copyright... funny, none of these head porters are copyrighting anything. Wonder why that is? Maybe they aren't doing anything that spectacular, all the confusion is arising from head porting being regarded as a Black Art... sort of like tuning is/was, electronics, etc, when all that is taking place is using common sense applied theory and making small changes to see how flow changes on a specific application.

All the cutting edge work is taking place in NASCAR and other big money racing venues. Most of the local V8 shops... some of them big names who know what the expletive they are talking about on speedtalk forums... get kicked one or two year old NASCAR/Winston Cup/etc heads to make CNC copies of. They admit it, too. They can't compete with a huge industry that makes 2% increases in power despite strict regulation every year when all they have is a few pissant million dollars worth of CNC machinery and a dozen employees and touch a pissant thousand heads a year. Sure, these guys learn their own individual tricks (the same tricks others come to on their own, oddly enough) and have a very canny grasp of what does and doesn't work, but there are real human limitations at play here.

Hondas are great. They are inexpensive, robust cars with a huge offering of off the shelf parts. They have the largest DIY community in the world. They take part of exactly zero racing circuits that require any Honda-specific advanced level of technology development, their owners are cheapassed eBay buying shills who'd rather buy a no-name Chinese part that breaks for $0.99 than spend $20 on a real solution, and anybody who gets **** retentive or angry about pissing away their minor talents on the wrong market is a misguided fool, or lacked sufficient talent to cut it at any level of the high tech circles in the first place.

I freaking love cars. I love Hondas especially, have for years. I make some money off of them. I do something else for a full time job, thanks, as I don't want any part of the one-hand-strokes-the-other three ring sales circus that the Honduh scene is comprised of. If you lack the business savvy or demeanor to profitably market your skills/product in a ***** vs quality market then you should do like me and do something else completely, thereby saving all of us an earful of whining over the way you can't change it from being like it's been since before you tried and failled to be a part of it. Frankly, I LIKE not being an integrated part of the industry, I have free range to tell anyone to get expletiveed when they act like a douchelord, and I am free to correct the tech of people who spout incorrect bullshit designed to aggrandize their own ego instead of mince around playing politics.

Completely incorrect.

Examine a fuel injector spray pattern sometime.

Examine the geometry of a head port on one of these engines sometime.

Examine what a few thousand dyno pulls per a several hundred EFI tuners across the country for the last 20 years has established as what does and what does not work. You know - the guys with their eyes open?

We aren't dealing with direct inject engines in this forum. We aren't dealing with some of the 911 turbo engines that had injectors aimed at the back faces of the intake valves so that fuel could be sprayed on them between intake valve/main injector events to cool them. We are dealing with D's and B's, F's and H's, and K's. Introducing a crosshatched - or rippled, in the case of these CNC heads - finish into the intake port is a really freaking good idea.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cigrafix2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> </TD></TR></TABLE>

Please STFU. You are making a complete fool out of yourself defending this guy. Get off his nuts and go find something better to do. CNC port has an account here why can't he get on here? Let me guess, he's to busy porting heads. STFU and get a life. I would love to hear the negative stuff you supposedly heard about miller you expletiveing toolbag.

 

You guys can call me any time you need to talk to me...
There are times though.. we miss calls... even from our regular customers... pretty busy down here right now, yes very "busy porting heads"