GEN2 LS

iTrader: (3)

How much stronger are these sleeves than OEM? Or are they just replacements with the same strength as OEM? I have a 81.5mm gsr that dropped a valve and it might have to go over 82mm bore and AEBS T-sleeves aren't within my budget at the moment.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Darton-Stock...item3f0f263075

rich7777

Tensile strength wise there A LOT stronger. There not a bad option if you ask me. You wouldn't crack one easy put it that way.

kbouchard1092

Not in youre budget? for the money youre going to spend to get those installed it would be cheaper buying another stock bare block. If youre going to spend the 800-1000 labor to have sleeved installed get actual sleeves. Waste of money IMO. Get the real thing or a used OEM block if youre not making excessive power

I am sure they are alot stronger then OEM, However for the cost of labor it isnt worth it, Just get the Mid's it would only be another 350$

rich7777

Those straight liners are pretty cheap to get fitted man. Over here i can get a top job done for £300 so i'd imagine it would be even cheaper over there (usd equivalent)

kbouchard1092

I got my Mid's installed for 800 labor...they now charge 1000.

Im sure they would be cheaper since there is less machining. My point is for a few hundred dollars he can get a used block (not sure of his power goals)Plus if he goes to the cheapest ABC machine shop (since he is on a budget) he could run into other issues if not installed correctly. For the cost of the sleeves and the install would be 2-3X the amount of a used block with and a new hone.

I agree it would be a better option then OEM but if he is on a budget then that would be the cheaper alternative

rich7777

Ok, got you. That sounds pretty good.

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

hum... interesting... my goals are only 500whp at most and I really don't want to fork over $1200 (after shipping expense) of sleeving my gsr motor too.

GEN2 LS

iTrader: (3)

well let me re-phrase my statement, the motor took a dump on me at a time when i'm obviously pressed for $$$$$, after Christmas shopping etc lol. I didn't plan for it to drop a valve, you know **** just happens. So I honestly had no intent on spending money on another motor build anytime soon, hince the word "budget" not jumping down your throat man, I just don't wanna hear all the your trying to cut corners and cheap out etc. Power goal is 450whp just have eagle/je pistons at the moment. It's hard finding a "GOOD" gsr block around here, that isn't beat to hell or already overbored, or missing main caps etc. Hence the reason I wanna just work with what I have.

rich7777

I'm using flanged sleeves for my build. https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/rich777s-b16-engine-build-2997100/ I'm not sure if they'd be a better option for you guy's. They were recommended to me by Darton as the MID's were out of the question (there still fairly cheap to install).

SI_frankenstein

Im not sure on the pricing but check this out:

http://www.b20vtec.com/forums/engine...rt-system.html

CO_RaceFab

Use la sleeves we made 8-850ish on them several times they are cheaper than dartons and imo stronger... dartons are junk in my book.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

Darton's are junk in your book.... Alrighty then!

All sleeves are made out of ductile iron regardless of manufacture there all basically the same thing. A sleeve job is only as good as the installation. Darton's or any othe sleeve can be junk if not installed properly. If installed correctly I'd like you to show me a Darton's block done right that won't hold same or more power then those la sleeves

rich7777

Its moron's like you that give companies a bad rep for no reason. Theres nothing wrong with any of Darton's products.. Come to think of it THERE ALL GOOD ACTUALLY.

I totall agree with Turbo-LS

SPOOLINmatt

6 years ago i would have never touched darton, but now there are more people that actually know what they are doing when they install them in our blocks and its been a lot better.

Steve D

The 200 series Darton sleeve will work fine for the power levels you are looking at. I prefer the 300 series because they have a larger diameter flange at the top which provides increased seating area. The flange also provides a greater wall thickness where the cylinder pressure is greatest.

I have no clue where you guys are coming up with these installation prices. MID sleeve installation has remained at $600 for years. 200 series runs $400 and the 300 series is $500. These are prices charged by Darton if you send the block to them for sleeve installation.

The material used in Darton sleeves is centrifugally cast ductile iron having a tensile strength approaching 120,000 psi vs. the stock factory cast in gray iron liner of 35,000 psi tensile at best. The sleeves are individually cast in spinning molds and are not made from pipe or extrusions. That makes the sleeves far superior in strength to what some other companies offer. That is the reason why 100% of NHRA top fuel and funny car teams use Darton sleeves.

Any sleeve will fail if improperly installed or incorrect techniques are used for installation. My shop does the sleeve installation and block machining for Darton, all the block R&D work and I am one of the patent holders of the MID sleeves.

Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

great info

CO_RaceFab

Its morons like me that have tried every sleeve and give their opinion they are harder to install and there are better company's I won't argue that the install has a lot to do with it but I have had my guy do both and he prefers the la's.... we have had the dartons crack blocks, blow gaskets and so on never jad a problen with la and we have made 50+psi on them.... how many motor have you built e-thug.
This coming from a guy chasing 400hp... come on dude we make that on stock engines at 6000' lol

rs250nut

Proper sleeves or don't bother, bit like a block guard,another band aid.

rich7777

At the end of the day there not junk and to call something junk on such a open forum that isn't, isn't exactly fair is it ? There are tons of people out there running Darton's without any issues what so ever, which love them to pieces. If you prefer LA sleeves over Darton then fair enough, thats your personal preference not mine or anyone elses. I'm not 100% sure that your a shop, but if you are then would you like it if someone started off a load of bull sh*t about your work ? I bet not...

O yeah, WOW about the 400hp on a stock block. Thats just so cool... and no I'M NOT a e-thug and i don't claim to of built a lot of motors. I just feel that i have a good point. If i'm honestly wrong and can be proven, i'll gladly take everything back with a apology.

CO_RaceFab

I do own a shop and we sell la sleeves simple as that.... I dont manufacture things for others to install nor do i build anything people would "start off a load of bullshit about" if i ran darton and was so confident about my sleeves i wouldnt sell them to other installers. maybe they have great machine shops in england that can turn water into wine but i doubt it.

Darton

How would you say that Darton's are junk when we sell more performance sleeves than all of the sleeve companies combined? If LA sleeves were so much stronger than Dartons why do 98% of the Top Fuel and Funny car teams use Darton and not LA sleeves? Why do companies like Dart, Ed Pink, Carroll Shelby, Ford Racing, Roush, S&S Cycles, Zippers, Harley Davidson, BAE, Alan Johnson Performance, AMS Performance, CN Blocks, TRD, Essingler, Fontana Automotive, Mahle and this is just a fraction of who we supply.

We specialize in performance and constantly try and improve what we do. LA sleeves makes a good product but our design and technology is far superior. We do all our own engineering and strive to make sleeves better. When race teams and manufacturers want something new they come to us because they know our material is superior and our technical knowledge is the best. Our material not standard ductile iron, it is our own chemistry based on an ASTM spec and our material far exceeds the specs called out. Not all ductile iron is the same, especially in our case.

Our kits may be more expensive but if you look at the machining and quality of the product you know your paying a little more for a reason. Who else phosphate coats their wet sleeves? Little things like this seperate us from the competition.

Its like shopping for a pacemaker, would you go and buy one because its cheaper and will do just enough to get the job done or would you try and find the best engineered and best quality pacemaker to ensure everything will last?

rich7777

If you have had problems with Darton sleeves then they havent been installed correctly... simple...

CO_RaceFab

I don't build any of these I build honda engines and have not had good results with your products.
Why do most people that are serious about racing hondas run golden eagle? I sell la because they are cheap for street cars and I used them in my race car this year because I had a block sitting at my shop... I had good luck with it for the most part... sorry

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

here are some prices of 200 & 300 series sleeves installed... just thought I'd share it with you guys.

These are authorized Darton dealers and specialize in these sleeve install.





200 series installed = $1,199.
300 series installed = $1,299
MIDS installed = $1,719
Shipping is approx. $80-$100

DARTON sleeves (200, 300 series or MIDS)
INSTALL SLEEVES
CLEAN BLOCK (will include jet wash & media blast)
INSPECT BLOCK PRIOR TO MACHINE WORK
BLUEPRINT MACHINE BLOCK FOR DARTON MID SLEEVES
MACHINE DECK SURFACE OF BLOCK FOR MLS STYLE GASKET
FINISH BLUEPRINT BORE & POWER HONE CYLINDER BORES TO SIZE (with torque plate)
FINAL CLEAN BLOCK, AND PREP FOR SHIPMENT BACK TO CUSTOMER

Another dealer & machine shop quoted $1,131 for 300 sleeves + shipping
The only difference (from listed services above) was that the block would not be media blasted


IMHO for mild boosted applications under 25psi the 300 series will work fine.
The MIDS cost $420 (gross total afer install) compared to the 300 series.

So each person should gauge how their money is best spent for their application/goals.