kicked25th

So I have a friend with a 2000si and wants to turbo. he says he absolutely HAS to stay OBD2, so Crome/Uber/Hondata etc are out of the question.

Now it pains me to even think or type this, but it looks like we have 3 main options, though only really 2.


#1, my personal favorite, is tuning with Greddy Emanage Ultimate with RC 550cc Injectors. However, he is very short on funds from the purchase of his recent kit, so even if he bought the Emanage, he wouldnt have the money to tune it.
He just bought the kit and doesnt wanna leave it sitting around while he waits to save up money, so yea, thats kinda out.

The other two *cringes* are the VAFC Hack and FMU.

Now out of these two, they both advance timing equally by messing with the reading of the map sensor and the VAFC has better fuel control.

People run 5-6psi all the time on both of these systems, the owner of TurboD16.com runs 9psi on his car, and the creators of the VAFC hack ran 2-3 years before blowing anything up, so I think 6 months on low boost while he saves money wont kill anything, in which case he will buy the Emanage and take it to St00pid to be tuned.

The FMU/Missing Link setup is a little cheaper, but I like that the VAFC can be used later as a gauge, which is great for cars without Tachs and the DSMs are good for a while HP wise.

So I think its obvious which of these two mongrels I choose. I am just typing this up more or less to get out my frustrations + the typical Hater-Tech "chipped ECU or bust" rhetoric.

I have researched over the past couple of days the best settings etc, so I think I am ready to do this thing...too bad the boostmachines.com website is not up anymore, those settings were the ****.

Anyone still have them?

advert

rushing **** always ends in a headach..

but no mater what you say to him he will prly do it anyways so it will be his mess.

id say vafc over fmu.


also you say he has to stay obd2 is that cause of emessions or something? if so why cant he just switch back to obd2 when he needs it done?

Finger Lickin' good

that a vicious circle. lol.

I want to turbo, but i have to stay obd2.

Well, not in this state anyway.

kicked25th

Vicious Circle Indeed.

And as far as to why, I think his dad is a cop or something and if its not street legal, than like his dad wont let him drive it or something.

So the leaner you run, the more boost you can run and the safer it is, right?


Modified by kicked25th at 6:37 PM 2/1/2007

coneheadsracing

research, you've mentioned lean, and advance, not sure if your just not typing what you mean or what?

Get the msd BTM i think that is what it is. Allows you to retard timing. There is some guy on here, lots of boost, fmu hack, and that. If you add fuel, and pull timing, you are doing what the computer programs do, just not to the full extent.

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

Hope he is putting on a carb legal turbo kit. I don't see how being legal even comes to mind when doing a turbo kit.

2k.civic.si

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93turbo16 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hope he is putting on a carb legal turbo kit. I don't see how being legal even comes to mind when doing a turbo kit.</TD></TR></TABLE>

exactly...unless the kit is legal might as well get the jumper harness go obd1 and do it right...can always pull the turbo kit and put the obd2 ecu back in for smog...or just go the not so legal route for smog

kicked25th

Not everyone is from CA you know. Here in TX you can pass with a Turbo Kit as long as it doesnt throw any codes, I know a lot of people that do it.

And the BTM is a waste of money, might as well go Emanage ultimate for that money.

And I said that I found a site that said the more boost you run, the more the VAFC cant reduce it, so the farther in the VAC ign. tables you will be, in turn, the lower the timing you will have,

makes sense to me, though I told him to just save for Emanage Ultimate if OBD2 means so much.

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kicked25th &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not everyone is from CA you know. Here in TX you can pass with a Turbo Kit as long as it doesnt throw any codes, I know a lot of people that do it.

And the BTM is a waste of money, might as well go Emanage ultimate for that money.

And I said that I found a site that said the more boost you run, the more the VAFC cant reduce it, so the farther in the VAC ign. tables you will be, in turn, the lower the timing you will have,

makes sense to me, though I told him to just save for Emanage Ultimate if OBD2 means so much.</TD></TR></TABLE>


It can work like that, but then you get so high and you can't hide the boost from the map sensor any more from just the VAFC and have to run a check valve any way to keep it from seeing boost. The best you can do is get it to the 0-1 psi column in the ecu. Anything over that and it will throw a code.

kicked25th

yea, I would never boost more than the 11.2psi the stock map can read anyway. Ending up in the 0-1psi (which is what I think it is) column lands you in a fairly safe place timing wise. People have run 10psi for years, he just needs it for a couple of months.

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kicked25th &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yea, I would never boost more than the 11.2psi the stock map can read anyway. Ending up in the 0-1psi (which is what I think it is) column lands you in a fairly safe place timing wise. People have run 10psi for years, he just needs it for a couple of months.</TD></TR></TABLE>

In no way is the 0-1 psi column a fairly safe place for timing. People have also been running 10 psi for hours and have blown motors with that setup.

flamega

first off, your saying that a 2000si has an OBDII. is this a true statement? 2000 civics come with OBDI, don't they.

and as for converting from OBDII &gt; OBDI........i heard something about it messing with the idle. because in the 2001 OBDII, your dealing with coils...and in the 2000 OBDI, your dealing with plugs as far as your distributors concerned. and for that reason, they don't cooperate as well.

you also said..."the leaner you run, the more boost you can run..." ...i would think this is a false statement unless your going to be more specific about where in the fuel map your talking about. it is true however that boosted applications do run more lean then N/A motors...but to say what you said is just too open ended. no offense...LoL. just ask that same question with a little more meat on it, i guess.

and for those of you that are like, "who the hell is this guy?" i'm a new comer...lol.

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by flamega &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">first off, your saying that a 2000si has an OBDII. is this a true statement? 2000 civics come with OBDI, don't they.

and as for converting from OBDII &gt; OBDI........i heard something about it messing with the idle. because in the 2001 OBDII, your dealing with coils...and in the 2000 OBDI, your dealing with plugs as far as your distributors concerned. and for that reason, they don't cooperate as well.

and for those of you that are like, "who the hell is this guy?" i'm a new comer...lol. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You are definitley still a new comer. The 96-00 civics and so on are OBD2A and OBD2B. To be specific 96-98 OBD2A and 99-00 are OBD2B.

The 01 and up cars do have coil-packs, and they cannot be ran by the OBD1, OBD2B or OBD2A non coil-pack ecus.

And I don't think anyone ever said the leaner you run the more boost you can run..

He meant that with the VAFC, the more boost you run, the less deep you get into the vacuum ignition tables, causing less of an ignition advance. (This still is not even close to optimal at all) Basically running 10 psi, with 0 ignition retard on a 10:1 compression motor.

kicked25th

Oh no trust me I know its not safe. Hell, its not even adviseable, notice how I said I just recommended he buy the Emanage Ultimate, but he is stubborn and wants to do it his way, since it is his money after all, so I am just trying to give him the best info I can...
though it looks like all this turbo stuff scared him into going NA

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kicked25th &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh no trust me I know its not safe. Hell, its not even adviseable, notice how I said I just recommended he buy the Emanage Ultimate, but he is stubborn and wants to do it his way, since it is his money after all, so I am just trying to give him the best info I can...
though it looks like all this turbo stuff scared him into going NA</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just trying to point out a few things is all. If you aren't going to manage the a turboed engine properly, he is better off going NA.

0xenocron

You are actually running less timing advance with the FMU vs AFC Hack, so I say keep the boost as low as possible and run the FMU

flamega

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kicked25th &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So the leaner you run, the more boost you can run and the safer it is, right? </TD></TR></TABLE>

theres your quote. not to be cocky.

so let me ask you this...if 96-98 are OBDIIa, and 99-00 are OBDIIb...then what does my 01' civic LX 1.7L run with? i thought this ran with the OBDII.

kicked25th

What I meant by that was that the VAFC works by pulling signal from the map sensor. So if you put in -35 and then run leaner to -38, you can actually run more boost because the map is not taking as much signal away, but I think, in hindsight, that statement might have been false.

flamega

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kicked25th &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> So if you put in -35 and then run leaner to -38, you can actually run more boost because the map is not taking as much signal away</TD></TR></TABLE>

i may sound like a novice for asking this, but how else am i going to learn something........

where are you getting these *MINUS* -35, -38 numbers from?

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by flamega &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i may sound like a novice for asking this, but how else am i going to learn something........

where are you getting these *MINUS* -35, -38 numbers from? </TD></TR></TABLE>

The SAFC, that is how you get the map signal to not show boost to the ecu. You can only do this with bigger injectors.

And to the running leaner for more boost, i explained what he meant right below that. SO instead of the "said" replace it with a "meant" and that should clear it up.

Also the 01 lx is OBD2.. but it has coil on plug, which can't be signaled to fire with a non coil on plug ecu.

And if you want, read this.. And keep reading it and playing with crome or just read it over and over.. you will get it.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=841443

flamega

alright, i read the first post for now. i'll read the rest tonight or something.

i kind of understand it, but its a little confusing. it almost seems like your pulling a fast one on the ECU by changing the size of the injectors. theres something else going on too, but i can't quite put my finger on it. something to do with the numbers though. or make the ECU jump to a different section on the map for a certain situation. i'm going to have to read the full thread. maybe they say something to explain this better further down the line.

but thank you for pointing me to it!

93supercoupe

my suggestion is to not even turbo the car.

There is NO reason the car cant be OBD-1 for any reason.

If he cant afford to do it right the first time, than just wait till he can.

Go threw emissions first if thats the reason, and then tubro the *****.


I didnt read the whole thread, so if I missed anything my bad.

IntegraTypeR

iTrader: (1)

hmm isnt AEM EMS an OBD2 unit?
anywa if you are trying to say he wants to stay stock OBD2 then he has no other way but to use some sort of a piggy back with the stock ecu....SAFC and MSD BTM is a choice, but most here dont like the hack!

kicked25th

Thats a very uninformed answer.

Just cause someone doesnt wanna go OBD1, doesnt mean they dont deserve to turbo their car, its THEIR CAR.

Illegally paying someone to pass a OBD2 car is stupid IMHO, almost as much as taking everything off everytime you SMOG your car.

Now, do I think he should use a better form of Fuel/Engine Management? Yes.

Can an OBD2 Car still perform great? YES!

kicked25th

I brought this up in another forum and wanted to see what Hater-Tech had to say

Since the close you get to 0 the closer you get to maxing out the map signal, would it make sense to do the VAFC hack with the timing maps for the .3-.4psi column just really retarded.

I know you could just run a basemap for that, but given that someone has the VAFC and doesnt wanan buy the BTM, wouldnt it it make sense to tune the ignition tables in high VAC which is where you will be in the tables?