yes I know they have awd drivetrain losses, but if you have ever ridden in one you would see that they are very torquey down load and in the midrange, but in the higher rpms that little turbo runs out of breath and they die out. Wrx turbos are capable of plenty more than 12psi. On a wrx I have seen them hitting 18psi with the stock turbo and on my own car I have had the wastegate **** on me and had it boost 15-16psi before so believe me they are capable of it. Also the cam I have is the zex 59300 and it does have a high lift, but i'm not sure of the duration. Its the same cam that zexman uses in his racecar that is making almost 600whp and there are plenty other turbo sohc's on this site running the same cam.

It has become quite obvious in your last post that you don't know **** about what is going on with a turbo car so maybe you should stick to blowers and stop giving people misinformation on their turbo hondas(which by the way you don't know **** about hondas...not sure why you are even posting in here).


Modified by SOHC_MShue at 10:49 AM 1/27/2005

 

yes you do not want a racecar cam in a street car and you don't need a cam to support 600hp. and they die up top because of the all wheel drive it sucks on the highway and what little torque they have. then you say that you have a small turbo and need a bigger one when you are not even running the wrx turbo to its full pontential

and that still does not include the fact that 4th and 5th gears are both overdrives


Modified by b16h22a at 9:48 AM 1/27/2005

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16h22a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well the die up top because of all wheel drive or maby you have not heard of driveline loss and the turbos themselves are capiable of running around 12psi and then there is the fact that they have a very restrictive exhaust (3 cats) and you are forgetting that your engine is about 25% smaller then theirs so yea a bigger turbo isn't gona do you much good you will awalys be slow also wat cam do you have because i hope it is not high lift but the same duration as stock cause that would be prety stupid</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your wrong! So stop it. I will definately put money on it, if he had a t3 to4e size turbo in there, he will pull some damn impressive results, rather then the wrz turbo. Stop it already, you have no point. Gay thread, after you join. SHush.. There are lots running race cams in the street cars, I know its no need, but lots are doing fine with them.

 

ok why am i wrong?

 

OMG, shutup...! GO to sleep or something..

Read all of your post, trying to tell everybody is wrong. Trying to actually prove them dumb? More like seems for you to be soOo obnoxious~@!@ GO away.

Even though you said you dont give a crap about what setup he has. Yes smart one.. You would need to know what he has in order to see what can be done.

You trying to prove everyone wrong, and bitching about peoples car. Let the man do whatever he feels with his Civic back to word. Or why not go buy urself a civic and do it your own!

whatever dude...WHATEVER!

 

see nothing i said is wrong all you can di is say that i am wrong without saying why

 

::yawns:: Go fight the war in Iraq or something. Goodlord..

 

thank you you just proved my point

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b16h22a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes you do not want a racecar cam in a street car and you don't need a cam to support 600hp. and they die up top because of the all wheel drive it sucks on the highway and what little torque they have. then you say that you have a small turbo and need a bigger one when you are not even running the wrx turbo to its full pontential

and that still does not include the fact that 4th and 5th gears are both overdrives


Modified by b16h22a at 9:48 AM 1/27/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>
You don't know anything about the cam. Just because its in a racecar doesn't mean that it isn't gonna work fine in my car. My car idles like stock with the cam and the powerband is basically increased everywhere overall. When the heck did I ever say I needed a bigger turbo. My turbo should be good for probably 250whp max on my setup. I am really only looking to make 210whp max because anything above that is getting kind of sketchy on the stock block. I am perfectly fine with the small turbo. It is perfect for a low power turbo setup on my 1.6l. I get great spoolup time with this size turbo and my top end doesn't suffer either.

 

http://www.hadamotorsport.com/D16camshafts.htm

ok there is all the information about your cam and others the cam you chose have a very large valve lift with relitively small valve lift. this is not good when you have a turbo. you also need a large lift on the smaller exhaust valves to efficently spool the turbo the cam you have in your engine now would be a good choice for an all motor application but not for a turbo application

i reccomend the D16Z6/Y8 Stage 3 cam with that you should be able to break into the 13's

 

i know it doesn't make sense that the zex 59300 cam should be a good turbo cam, but for some reason it works great on the d16z6/y8 motors. Here is a thread I made a long time ago on the subject. There are plenty of people in there that can vouch for how well this cam does in turbo apps. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=756098

I shouldn't have any problems breaking into the 13's, except for the fact that I suck at drag racing and can't launch very well

 

you guys still arguing with this guy? I gave up two pages ago..lol, no point, the thread starter doesnt even care anymore. No time for this guy let him tune his car with a fork and forget it.
cheers

 

and we stopped caring 24hours ago

 

Wow, I am now stupider for reading this thread. to rtype11. You pretty much nailed the subject on the head.

There are so many irrelivent issues brought up in this thread. It's like beating a dead horse with that B16 guy. I'm quite sure you have to have the last word, correct?

I don't know where you received your information about turbo applications but your flat out, plain and simple, wrong on several key elements. If some newbie were to follow what you said as truth, he would find himself with ruined parts and an empty wallet.

Further more, I happened to read your little post about what you drive. That's great, but who cares? Coming on this site half cocked isn't going to get you great results, I'd suggest toning it down a couple notches instead of posting with so much angst. I'm sure your a nice guy, but some of your posts...you sound very angry.

To get back on topic here. I was running a T3/T67 on my Type R with 8lbs of boost, the cars factory ECU had been swapped out for a P28 that has been chipped so I can run Uberdata and create my own A/F maps. I was running NO O2 sensors and the car ran fine. Same gas milage as if the car was stock N/A. It is always, ALWAYS going to come down to the tune. That will make it or break it.

Different cams can be run on a car with a turbo. When it all comes down to the absolute basics, your engine is nothing but an air pump. Anything you can do to get the air in and out as efficeintly as possible will always yeild better results. The problem there is that when people upgrade the cam/s they seldom realize that the valve train needs to be upgraded with it i.e. valve springs, retainers, maybe new valves...cam gears..etc. So when none of this has been done, your setting yourself up for a rude awakening.

At any rate B16H...I'm quite sure your a nice guy, I'd like to see you prove it. There are many many people running they're turbo'd cars with no O2 and everything is fine. Let's all have a and forget about it.

Aloha,
Brandon

 

ok well first off that is a given that when you change a cam you need to change springs and retainers and such it is written in the directions and frankely of you are dumb enough to ignore that then you deserve to have **** break

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Haleiwa-Brando &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
To get back on topic here. I was running a T3/T67 on my Type R with 8lbs of boost, the cars factory ECU had been swapped out for a P28 that has been chipped so I can run Uberdata and create my own A/F maps. I was running NO O2 sensors and the car ran fine.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes you are agreeing with me if you are running a stock tune whick i assumbed he was since he did not say otherwise then you should run an oxygen sensor if you custom tune your ecu to run without one then that will work too.

bottom line factory tune=you needing an o2 sensor

and all this so called knowlage is comming from a guy who is having a shop rebuild his engine

and you still can not tell me why i am wrong



Modified by b16h22a at 2:42 AM 1/28/2005

 

Actually, anything is possible. Saying it isn't...well my friend, that is dumb. On the factory ECU....ah hell, I don't have time to argue with you over something as stupid as this.

Aloha,
Brandon

 

[qoute = SOHC_MShue]he never said that he was running a stock p28 either. You did the same thing and assumed it wasn't modified. How is a 14.1 with a turbo civic pathetic? I have a ******* 1.6l engine making 200whp max in a heavy *** 98 ex coupe. Coupled with the fact that i wasn't hitting full boost until around 5000rpms because of my fucked up internal gate on my tiny wrx turbo and the fact that I can't launch for **** (best 60' of 2.4 ). I think that its not too bad. [/quote]

im gonna argue for the sake of arguing.. when the hell is a civic coupe a heavy *** car????!?
lol

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lkailburn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im gonna argue for the sake of arguing.. when the hell is a civic coupe a heavy *** car????!?
lol</TD></TR></TABLE>
well its not a heavy *** car, but comparatively it is pretty damn heavy compared to all the hatches with turbos

 

how much are you weighing in at? u should be at like 2300 correct?

 

I run around with only a plx to monitor the A/F, I also get around 25-27 mpg with the stock o2 disabled.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lkailburn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how much are you weighing in at? u should be at like 2300 correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have no idea with all the turbo stuff, but a stock 98 ex coupe should weigh over 2500lbs. Definantely not 2300..thats probably more like a 98 hatch.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lkailburn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how much are you weighing in at? u should be at like 2300 correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>

EJ8= 2553lbs curb as per Honda

 

i wonder what mine weighs in at. ej6, no pw steering, no pw windows or locks, no ac

 

removing the stcok o2 sensor on a honda will never make it run lean, it can make it run rich though normally, becuase its feed back to the ecu helps it keep the engine running stoicheometric (spelling) in load load, part throttle conditions.
buttttt
there is no such thing as wide open throttle closed loop (ie it doest change the fuel maps wid o2 input in several conditions included but probably not limited too, throttle position over 80%)
and btw narrow band o2's dont know the difference between 13.8:1 , 13.2:1 , or 10:1 a/f ratio all it knows is that all of those are richer then 14.7:1 or some might say richer then 14:1,
btw incase u didnt no, 13.8:1 a/f is to lean for WOT
ooh and i almost forgot, the reaon the o2 is used in stock-ish hondas and not needed on these guys cars is.................
the o2 sensor makes ecu run a lil lean like 15:1, then lil rich 14:1, during closed loop conditions constantly to make it build up o2 in the cat then burn off the hydrocarbons nad stuff, as apposed to having an air pump.
and b16ah22a dude or whatever not knowing everything is ok, just chill out, seems like ur really trying hard to prove ppl wrong... a wise man once said, ur not learning when ur mouth is open.... or something like that

 

hahaha

Late-model engines also use a "fuel feedback control loop" to adjust the fuel mixture once the engine starts. The PCM uses input from the oxygen sensor to determine if the fuel mixture is rich or lean. As soon as the O2 sensor gets hot enough to produce a signal (about 600 degrees F), the PCM goes into "closed loop" and starts using the O2 sensor signal to adjust the fuel mixture. Most newer vehicles have heated oxygen sensors so the sensor will reach operating temperature more quickly.

Oxygen sensors produce a voltage signal that bounces back and forth between 0.1 and 0.9 volts. Think of it as a rich/lean indicator switch. When the fuel mixture is rich (anything below 14.7:1), the O2 sensor signal shoots up to 0.8 volts or higher. When the PCM sees a rich indication, it compensates by making the mixture go lean. It does this by shortening the on time (duration) of the injectors to reduce fuel delivery. When the mixture goes lean, the O2 sensor signal drops to 0.2 volts or less. When the PCM sees a lean signal, it increases the duration (on time) of the injectors to add more fuel. This causes the fuel mixture to rapidly cycle back and forth between rich and lean, with the average mixture being close to 14.7 to 1.

The PCM also uses "short term" and "long term" fuel trim adjustments to make further refinements in the mixture. The end result of all of this is a closely balanced fuel mixture.

Several things can screw up the fuel control loop. One is a bad oxygen sensor. O2 sensors tend to slow down with age and can become sluggish or nonresponsive. If someone hooks up an oscilloscope to an O2 sensor and sees a flat line waveform, the sensor needs to be replaced. A good O2 sensor should produce a signal that rapidly bounces back and forth between rich (0.8v) and lean (0.2v).

A bad coolant sensor can also prevent the PCM from going into closed-loop fuel control. If the PCM thinks the engine is always cold, it will keep adding extra fuel creating a fuel mixture that's too rich. The result can be a surging idle, poor fuel economy and elevated emissions. The same condition can also be caused by anything that causes the coolant sensor to read cold such as a thermostat that's stuck open or a low coolant level.

The PCM looks at inputs from the throttle position sensor, airflow sensor (if one is used) and manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensor to determine throttle position, airflow and engine load. It then calculates the amount of fuel needed to balance the mixture. So any problems with these other sensors can affect fuel delivery

what happens if
you have a vaccum leak and no o2 sensors- you will run lean
you have a very dirty air filter - you will run rich
you have a somewhat clogged fuel filter - you will run lean
you have a partially clogged fuel injector you will run lean

now what happens if you are running lean, well lets see
Possible engine damage includes preignition, detonation, and overheating none of which are good for driveability or engine longevity and you also have nothing to tell you what is going on and the majority of people would not know that there engien is running dangerously lean if it hit them in the face. add that to the fact that you have nothing to put the ecu in limpmode (which was out there for a reason, to protect the engine. one way it protects the engine is to dump *** loads of gas in there to protect from engine damage) so you can go ahead and not run one and i will laugh when i pass your broken down car on the side of the road.


Modified by b16h22a at 1:32 AM 1/29/2005