nitrous question
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,347
Likes: 0
From: NL, CT, cuba
Re: (notguilty411)
The HX motor is not a performance motor. It is engineered for fuel efficency. It has several extra emissions controls, including a wideband O2 sensor, and the ability to trim fuel accordingly.
I suspect it is not as robust as some of the more "performance" oriented platforms. If you don't mind potentially blowing it up, I think it would be a fun experiment, but there are a couple unkowns that may make it dicey.
-PHiZ
I suspect it is not as robust as some of the more "performance" oriented platforms. If you don't mind potentially blowing it up, I think it would be a fun experiment, but there are a couple unkowns that may make it dicey.
-PHiZ
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,640
Likes: 1
From: VA Beach, VA, USA
Re: (PHiZ)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PHiZ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The HX motor is not a performance motor. It is engineered for fuel efficency. It has several extra emissions controls, including a wideband O2 sensor, and the ability to trim fuel accordingly.
I suspect it is not as robust as some of the more "performance" oriented platforms. If you don't mind potentially blowing it up, I think it would be a fun experiment, but there are a couple unkowns that may make it dicey.
-PHiZ</TD></TR></TABLE>
thats not the HX! Thats a VX that you described. The VX has Vtec-e for better fuel economy and a NTK wideband O2 sensor(5 wire)
I suspect it is not as robust as some of the more "performance" oriented platforms. If you don't mind potentially blowing it up, I think it would be a fun experiment, but there are a couple unkowns that may make it dicey.
-PHiZ</TD></TR></TABLE>
thats not the HX! Thats a VX that you described. The VX has Vtec-e for better fuel economy and a NTK wideband O2 sensor(5 wire)
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 11,001
Likes: 2
From: Boca Raton, FL
Re: (hybrid_vtec)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid_vtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
thats not the HX! Thats a VX that you described. The VX has Vtec-e for better fuel economy and a NTK wideband O2 sensor(5 wire)</TD></TR></TABLE>
Correct, but so was HX.
thats not the HX! Thats a VX that you described. The VX has Vtec-e for better fuel economy and a NTK wideband O2 sensor(5 wire)</TD></TR></TABLE>
Correct, but so was HX.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,640
Likes: 1
From: VA Beach, VA, USA
Re: (turbogixxer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbogixxer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Correct, but so was HX.</TD></TR></TABLE>
my bad, thanx for the correction!
Correct, but so was HX.</TD></TR></TABLE>
my bad, thanx for the correction!
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
From: abbotsford, bc, canada
Re: (notguilty411)
I just wanted to add my two cents on a few things, so here goes.
First, the major reason that nitrous is different than boost is that with nitrous you are spraying in a given amount of nitrous at all rpm levels. The problem is that at low rpm the valve is open longer and therefore fills the combustion chamber with more nitrous than at higher rpm. This coupled with the slow piston speed of lower rpm the cylinder pressure is through the roof and that is what causes the damage but gives you that *** kicking torque. With a turbo or super charger, without rpm there is no boost therfore no low rpm high cylinder pressure which leads to no damage.
Second, I have a 93 si that i ran on the bottle for a few years with the stock d16z6. I had a header, exhaust, 55 dry shot of zex, chipped ecu and an intake. I had to put in a fuel pump because the stock one wasnt strong enough, but for your application it might be ok. I was running the B&M regulator with a holley 255lbs/hr pump. I wouldnt recomend this setup because the B&M regulator uses the bottom part of the stock regulator. The problem with this is the pump puts out so much fuel pressure the regulator cant return it to the tank fast enough and you end up with super high fuel pressur at idle. The B&M can only raise fuel pressure but a higher quality regulator like the Aeromotive (thats what I have now and it works awsome with the pump) is able to maintain the fuel pressure you set it at. I ran plugs that were one step colder just to be on the safe side, but you may not have to, the risk is up to you. As for the plug gap because you have an MSD so you my not have to narrow it up, but you will have to experiment to find the fastest setup. As for timing you might be able to get away with stock timing but why risk it at first. To test the timing got to the drag track and make some passes. Start with the timing set low (in your case 2 degrees retarded) then make a pass. Keep advancing the timming until your mph starts to drop. Be sure you dont advance the timing past stock with the 55 shot and pump gas.
Third, if you want to make your kit fool proof you can add things like a clutch switch (you can get a cruise control clutch pedal switch from the wreckers) , rpm activated window switch (MSD PN 8956 so that you dont over or under rev the motor when on the bottle), and a wide open throttle switch (zex already has this). If you want to get a little more hardcore and add things like a fuel and oil pressure switch but those definatly arent nessisary. One nice feature to have is a air fuel ratio gauge to let you know your fuel mixture is safe. I have been running an Autometer gauge and it isnt the best but it let you know its your safe (if any lights come on other than green its too lean). If your MSD has a two step rev limiter then you can set up your car like mine so you dont have to let off the throttle the entire quater mile. On 22 inch slick my car ran low 12s but destroyed the tranny.
Fourth, as for bottle warmers I really like the NX kit because its all automatic. It has a pressure activated window switch that turns the bottle on when the pressure is too low and then off when it gets too high. The other nice feature is that it automaticaly turns the heater on when you start to spray (this is because bottle pressure drops as soon as the solinoid opens) maintaining the bottle pressure thoughout the run.
I think that this is all that I wanted to say.
First, the major reason that nitrous is different than boost is that with nitrous you are spraying in a given amount of nitrous at all rpm levels. The problem is that at low rpm the valve is open longer and therefore fills the combustion chamber with more nitrous than at higher rpm. This coupled with the slow piston speed of lower rpm the cylinder pressure is through the roof and that is what causes the damage but gives you that *** kicking torque. With a turbo or super charger, without rpm there is no boost therfore no low rpm high cylinder pressure which leads to no damage.
Second, I have a 93 si that i ran on the bottle for a few years with the stock d16z6. I had a header, exhaust, 55 dry shot of zex, chipped ecu and an intake. I had to put in a fuel pump because the stock one wasnt strong enough, but for your application it might be ok. I was running the B&M regulator with a holley 255lbs/hr pump. I wouldnt recomend this setup because the B&M regulator uses the bottom part of the stock regulator. The problem with this is the pump puts out so much fuel pressure the regulator cant return it to the tank fast enough and you end up with super high fuel pressur at idle. The B&M can only raise fuel pressure but a higher quality regulator like the Aeromotive (thats what I have now and it works awsome with the pump) is able to maintain the fuel pressure you set it at. I ran plugs that were one step colder just to be on the safe side, but you may not have to, the risk is up to you. As for the plug gap because you have an MSD so you my not have to narrow it up, but you will have to experiment to find the fastest setup. As for timing you might be able to get away with stock timing but why risk it at first. To test the timing got to the drag track and make some passes. Start with the timing set low (in your case 2 degrees retarded) then make a pass. Keep advancing the timming until your mph starts to drop. Be sure you dont advance the timing past stock with the 55 shot and pump gas.
Third, if you want to make your kit fool proof you can add things like a clutch switch (you can get a cruise control clutch pedal switch from the wreckers) , rpm activated window switch (MSD PN 8956 so that you dont over or under rev the motor when on the bottle), and a wide open throttle switch (zex already has this). If you want to get a little more hardcore and add things like a fuel and oil pressure switch but those definatly arent nessisary. One nice feature to have is a air fuel ratio gauge to let you know your fuel mixture is safe. I have been running an Autometer gauge and it isnt the best but it let you know its your safe (if any lights come on other than green its too lean). If your MSD has a two step rev limiter then you can set up your car like mine so you dont have to let off the throttle the entire quater mile. On 22 inch slick my car ran low 12s but destroyed the tranny.
Fourth, as for bottle warmers I really like the NX kit because its all automatic. It has a pressure activated window switch that turns the bottle on when the pressure is too low and then off when it gets too high. The other nice feature is that it automaticaly turns the heater on when you start to spray (this is because bottle pressure drops as soon as the solinoid opens) maintaining the bottle pressure thoughout the run.
I think that this is all that I wanted to say.
All Motor Mentor
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,987
Likes: 1
From: 902, Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: (NitrousB.I.G.)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NitrousB.I.G. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
As for timing you might be able to get away with stock timing but why risk it at first. To test the timing got to the drag track and make some passes. Start with the timing set low (in your case 2 degrees retarded) then make a pass. Keep advancing the timing until your mph starts to drop. Be sure you don't advance the timing past stock with the 55 shot and pump gas.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Why risk it? because it's only a 55 shot and not needed plus it'll be to detrimental to the cars off idle power when not running nitrous which is 99% of the time. If he goes to the track he will find that he will probably be running advanced timing by doing it the way you mention. While it's probably safe it's still not wise and he should keep it at the stock timing setting. Tuning nitrous is much smarter on the dyno where you can keep a better eye on everything rather than at the track. If you really knew how to read your plugs well you could do it at the track but most people don't.
As for timing you might be able to get away with stock timing but why risk it at first. To test the timing got to the drag track and make some passes. Start with the timing set low (in your case 2 degrees retarded) then make a pass. Keep advancing the timing until your mph starts to drop. Be sure you don't advance the timing past stock with the 55 shot and pump gas.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Why risk it? because it's only a 55 shot and not needed plus it'll be to detrimental to the cars off idle power when not running nitrous which is 99% of the time. If he goes to the track he will find that he will probably be running advanced timing by doing it the way you mention. While it's probably safe it's still not wise and he should keep it at the stock timing setting. Tuning nitrous is much smarter on the dyno where you can keep a better eye on everything rather than at the track. If you really knew how to read your plugs well you could do it at the track but most people don't.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
From: abbotsford, bc, canada
Re: (00Red_SiR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Why risk it?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Risk what? Retarding the timing will not hurt anything! Unless it is retarded a lot then it could burn the valves but not at 2 degrees. You also mentioned that my method could hurt the motor, how I said at the end that you should not advance the timing past the stock setting. We dont know what kind of shape the motor is in, if it has a lot of combustion deposite it could detinate very easy. Using my method of advancing 1 degree at a time from 2 degree retarded if the mph drops at all it is a sign that detination is starting and you need to pull the timing back to the previous setting. This method is perfect for this guy or any other beginners because you dont have to know how to read plugs. I agree with you that he will probably end up with the factory setting but I am not going to give out information that could potentialy harm his motor. As for dyno time, ya thats great but there could be a couple of problems witht that. First not all people have access to a good dyno facility, there are a bunch of morons out there running dynos. Second they cost a lot of money, for the amount you spend on a dyno you could have a lot of passes at the drag strip. But if your local dyno is a good place to get your car tuned it is worth the money because it is a very controlled enviroment.
As for the autometer A/F gauge it doesnt work very good but it is nice in the fact that it lets you know that you are in the ball park, I dont use it to tune. I have mine mounted on the pillar and I watch it out of the corner of my eye during a pass and if I see any color other than green I get out of it. There are other A/F gauges on the market that work better but the autometer is the one I have the most experience with and its cheap, so I cant recomend any others. My bro is picking a wide band A/F monitor but I wont know how much better that is until racing starts in the spring.
Why risk it?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Risk what? Retarding the timing will not hurt anything! Unless it is retarded a lot then it could burn the valves but not at 2 degrees. You also mentioned that my method could hurt the motor, how I said at the end that you should not advance the timing past the stock setting. We dont know what kind of shape the motor is in, if it has a lot of combustion deposite it could detinate very easy. Using my method of advancing 1 degree at a time from 2 degree retarded if the mph drops at all it is a sign that detination is starting and you need to pull the timing back to the previous setting. This method is perfect for this guy or any other beginners because you dont have to know how to read plugs. I agree with you that he will probably end up with the factory setting but I am not going to give out information that could potentialy harm his motor. As for dyno time, ya thats great but there could be a couple of problems witht that. First not all people have access to a good dyno facility, there are a bunch of morons out there running dynos. Second they cost a lot of money, for the amount you spend on a dyno you could have a lot of passes at the drag strip. But if your local dyno is a good place to get your car tuned it is worth the money because it is a very controlled enviroment.
As for the autometer A/F gauge it doesnt work very good but it is nice in the fact that it lets you know that you are in the ball park, I dont use it to tune. I have mine mounted on the pillar and I watch it out of the corner of my eye during a pass and if I see any color other than green I get out of it. There are other A/F gauges on the market that work better but the autometer is the one I have the most experience with and its cheap, so I cant recomend any others. My bro is picking a wide band A/F monitor but I wont know how much better that is until racing starts in the spring.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
From: abbotsford, bc, canada
Re: (00Red_SiR)
And yes if he ends up having to pull the timing back for the nitrous it will affect low rpm performance but that is the price you pay for being causious and hopfully never blowing anything up. I have an MSD digital 6 that I wired into the nitrous system so it pulls the timing back as soon as the nitrous is engauged. If you dont spend the money for something to pull back the timing electronicaly then you will have to adjust it mechanicaly. But you may not have to pull the timing back once you have gotten your setup figured out.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 11,001
Likes: 2
From: Boca Raton, FL
Re: (NitrousB.I.G.)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NitrousB.I.G. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Using my method of advancing 1 degree at a time from 2 degree retarded if the mph drops at all it is a sign that detonation is starting and you need to pull the timing back to the previous setting. </TD></TR></TABLE>
We will use your method.
A car pulls a 96 mph. Next run, nothing changed on the car, the car goes 95 mph. You think it is detonation? maybe the driver messed up? maybe the track changed? You see where I am going? It is hard for a beginner to see the different factors that make up a run. ****, beginners do not know how important 60' times are. You need to guage your motor that limits the amount of user input. That means, no one can **** up and change the outcome.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NitrousB.I.G. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This method is perfect for this guy or any other beginners because you dont have to know how to read plugs.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It is not hard to read plugs. You are not trying to base your whole tune off of reading plugs, but it gives you a good insight.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NitrousB.I.G. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As for the autometer A/F gauge it doesnt work very good but it is nice in the fact that it lets you know that you are in the ball park, I dont use it to tune. I have mine mounted on the pillar and I watch it out of the corner of my eye during a pass and if I see any color other than green I get out of it. </TD></TR></TABLE>
We will say that you see it go lean. By the time you react, it maybe too late. A narrow band (stock 1 or 4-wire) 02 only can read rich or lean. Anything under 14.7 is rich, anything over 14.7 is lean. So, you can be running 14.0 on spray. You think that is a good a/f for a street car? They are a light show.
We will use your method.
A car pulls a 96 mph. Next run, nothing changed on the car, the car goes 95 mph. You think it is detonation? maybe the driver messed up? maybe the track changed? You see where I am going? It is hard for a beginner to see the different factors that make up a run. ****, beginners do not know how important 60' times are. You need to guage your motor that limits the amount of user input. That means, no one can **** up and change the outcome.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NitrousB.I.G. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This method is perfect for this guy or any other beginners because you dont have to know how to read plugs.</TD></TR></TABLE>
It is not hard to read plugs. You are not trying to base your whole tune off of reading plugs, but it gives you a good insight.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NitrousB.I.G. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As for the autometer A/F gauge it doesnt work very good but it is nice in the fact that it lets you know that you are in the ball park, I dont use it to tune. I have mine mounted on the pillar and I watch it out of the corner of my eye during a pass and if I see any color other than green I get out of it. </TD></TR></TABLE>
We will say that you see it go lean. By the time you react, it maybe too late. A narrow band (stock 1 or 4-wire) 02 only can read rich or lean. Anything under 14.7 is rich, anything over 14.7 is lean. So, you can be running 14.0 on spray. You think that is a good a/f for a street car? They are a light show.
All Motor Mentor
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,987
Likes: 1
From: 902, Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: (NitrousB.I.G.)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NitrousB.I.G. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Risk what? Retarding the timing will not hurt anything! Unless it is retarded a lot then it could burn the valves but not at 2 degrees. You also mentioned that my method could hurt the motor, how I said at the end that you should not advance the timing past the stock setting. We dont know what kind of shape the motor is in, if it has a lot of combustion deposite it could detinate very easy. Using my method of advancing 1 degree at a time from 2 degree retarded if the mph drops at all it is a sign that detination is starting and you need to pull the timing back to the previous setting. This method is perfect for this guy or any other beginners because you dont have to know how to read plugs. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Retarding your timing will not hurt anything except off idle throttle response and acceleration when not using N2O, it absolutely won't burn your valves. Remember the whole context of this thread is about using a 55hp shot of nitrous which is where my recommendations are coming from. The whole point to what I was saying is to not do things that aren't required in the name of "safety" if it's also going to cost you performance 99% of the time which is how much the average N2O equipped engine runs without it engaged. If the power settings were different then so would be my exact advice.
Your method of tuning at the drag strip is ideal and actually recommended for tuning an ALL MOTOR APPLICATION. If you try to tune a nitrous or boosted engine at a track like that, advancing timing until detonation occurs and then retarding the timing back, the only thing you'll accomplish is a nice hole in one or more pistons. Also if someone is attempting to tune a boosted or N2O engine but doesn't know how to do something as simple as reading their plugs, then they shouldn't be doing it. No one is going to take a car to a guy who doesn't understand how to fix a car and tell him to fix it, if they did then the resulting outcome should be expected.
Risk what? Retarding the timing will not hurt anything! Unless it is retarded a lot then it could burn the valves but not at 2 degrees. You also mentioned that my method could hurt the motor, how I said at the end that you should not advance the timing past the stock setting. We dont know what kind of shape the motor is in, if it has a lot of combustion deposite it could detinate very easy. Using my method of advancing 1 degree at a time from 2 degree retarded if the mph drops at all it is a sign that detination is starting and you need to pull the timing back to the previous setting. This method is perfect for this guy or any other beginners because you dont have to know how to read plugs. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Retarding your timing will not hurt anything except off idle throttle response and acceleration when not using N2O, it absolutely won't burn your valves. Remember the whole context of this thread is about using a 55hp shot of nitrous which is where my recommendations are coming from. The whole point to what I was saying is to not do things that aren't required in the name of "safety" if it's also going to cost you performance 99% of the time which is how much the average N2O equipped engine runs without it engaged. If the power settings were different then so would be my exact advice.
Your method of tuning at the drag strip is ideal and actually recommended for tuning an ALL MOTOR APPLICATION. If you try to tune a nitrous or boosted engine at a track like that, advancing timing until detonation occurs and then retarding the timing back, the only thing you'll accomplish is a nice hole in one or more pistons. Also if someone is attempting to tune a boosted or N2O engine but doesn't know how to do something as simple as reading their plugs, then they shouldn't be doing it. No one is going to take a car to a guy who doesn't understand how to fix a car and tell him to fix it, if they did then the resulting outcome should be expected.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 11,001
Likes: 2
From: Boca Raton, FL
Re: (00Red_SiR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Your method of tuning at the drag strip is ideal and actually recommended for tuning an ALL MOTOR APPLICATION. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Using track numbers is just data. To tune a car right, you use the most and accurate data you can get about the car. Basing a tune off of one stream of data is dumb. Regardless if it is FI or not.
You are very right about the importance of timing on a FI car. You have more "room" for error with a NA car.
Using track numbers is just data. To tune a car right, you use the most and accurate data you can get about the car. Basing a tune off of one stream of data is dumb. Regardless if it is FI or not.
You are very right about the importance of timing on a FI car. You have more "room" for error with a NA car.
All Motor Mentor
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,987
Likes: 1
From: 902, Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: (turbogixxer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbogixxer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Using track numbers is just data. To tune a car right, you use the most and accurate data you can get about the car. Basing a tune off of one stream of data is dumb. Regardless if it is FI or not.
You are very right about the importance of timing on a FI car. You have more "room" for error with a NA car.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You took what I was saying a little out of context. What I think he was remembering and what I was more or less agreeing with him about was an old drag racers way of tuning an engine...an American made muscle car engine, not a Honda. I guess I should have clarified that but I didn't because I was trying to highlight the fact that tuning a car that way, especially with nitrous is a bad idea rather than lending 'support" to the idea of tuning a car like that period.
TESTING and tuning at a track is a very common thing done by racers, data is data, but there's no replacement for real world trial and error testing.
Using track numbers is just data. To tune a car right, you use the most and accurate data you can get about the car. Basing a tune off of one stream of data is dumb. Regardless if it is FI or not.
You are very right about the importance of timing on a FI car. You have more "room" for error with a NA car.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You took what I was saying a little out of context. What I think he was remembering and what I was more or less agreeing with him about was an old drag racers way of tuning an engine...an American made muscle car engine, not a Honda. I guess I should have clarified that but I didn't because I was trying to highlight the fact that tuning a car that way, especially with nitrous is a bad idea rather than lending 'support" to the idea of tuning a car like that period.
TESTING and tuning at a track is a very common thing done by racers, data is data, but there's no replacement for real world trial and error testing.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 11,001
Likes: 2
From: Boca Raton, FL
Re: (00Red_SiR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You took what I was saying a little out of context. What I think he was remembering and what I was more or less agreeing with him about was an old drag racers way of tuning an engine...an American made muscle car engine, not a Honda. I guess I should have clarified that but I didn't because I was trying to highlight the fact that tuning a car that way, especially with nitrous is a bad idea rather than lending 'support" to the idea of tuning a car like that period.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I understood that before I post, but people read that and go "I am going to do that". You see where I am going with this.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">an American made muscle car engine, not a Honda.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You cant use a chassis dyno on a muscle car?
I understood that before I post, but people read that and go "I am going to do that". You see where I am going with this.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">an American made muscle car engine, not a Honda.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You cant use a chassis dyno on a muscle car?
All Motor Mentor
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,987
Likes: 1
From: 902, Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: (turbogixxer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbogixxer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I understood that before I post, but people read that and go "I am going to do that". You see where I am going with this.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
yup..sure you did........picky picky..lol
Even if they did go out and try and tune their all motor civic that way it still wouldn't harm it, it just wouldn't exactly be tuned optimally, but then again that would be their problem for not educating themselves first.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbogixxer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You cant use a chassis dyno on a muscle car? </TD></TR></TABLE>
as you well know, sure you can, but back in the old school days they didn't have chassis dyno's available to them like we do now. Now a days, American muscle cars are as sophisticated as they come and the only way to properly tune them is on a dyno. Trying to track tune them the way the older carburated cars were done just isn't going to work.
I understood that before I post, but people read that and go "I am going to do that". You see where I am going with this.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
yup..sure you did........picky picky..lol
Even if they did go out and try and tune their all motor civic that way it still wouldn't harm it, it just wouldn't exactly be tuned optimally, but then again that would be their problem for not educating themselves first.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbogixxer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You cant use a chassis dyno on a muscle car?
</TD></TR></TABLE>as you well know, sure you can, but back in the old school days they didn't have chassis dyno's available to them like we do now. Now a days, American muscle cars are as sophisticated as they come and the only way to properly tune them is on a dyno. Trying to track tune them the way the older carburated cars were done just isn't going to work.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 11,001
Likes: 2
From: Boca Raton, FL
Re: (00Red_SiR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yup..sure you did........picky picky..lol</TD></TR></TABLE>
You know you would say the samething.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but then again that would be their problem for not educating themselves first.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Very true. It is crazy how much info is out there and people are still blind.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Trying to track tune them the way the older carburated cars were done just isn't going to work.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Most pro cars are track tuned only. Different conditions make it hard to tune for the track. Experience plays a big roll there. I am not talking about carbs either.
You know you would say the samething.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but then again that would be their problem for not educating themselves first.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Very true. It is crazy how much info is out there and people are still blind.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 00Red_SiR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Trying to track tune them the way the older carburated cars were done just isn't going to work.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Most pro cars are track tuned only. Different conditions make it hard to tune for the track. Experience plays a big roll there. I am not talking about carbs either.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,640
Likes: 1
From: VA Beach, VA, USA
Re: (turbogixxer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbogixxer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Most pro cars are track tuned only. Different conditions make it hard to tune for the track. Experience plays a big roll there. I am not talking about carbs either.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is true. The engine is dynoed before it goes in the car but it is tuned at the track between runs.
Most pro cars are track tuned only. Different conditions make it hard to tune for the track. Experience plays a big roll there. I am not talking about carbs either.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is true. The engine is dynoed before it goes in the car but it is tuned at the track between runs.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 11,001
Likes: 2
From: Boca Raton, FL
Re: (hybrid_vtec)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hybrid_vtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">engine is dynoed before it goes in the car but it is tuned at the track between runs.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Nope, they never see a dyno. Look into it, you will see.
Nope, they never see a dyno. Look into it, you will see.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
From: Lebanon, Pa, United States
alright.. i think im getting somewhat confused haha.. all i really wanted to know in the first place was how could i run a 55 dry shot of zex safely on my hx, you guys are giving tons of great info and its appreciated, im one who likes to understand the way things work front and back before i use it. so keep bringing everything you know.
thanks again
thanks again
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
From: VENTURA, CA, USA
Re: (notguilty411)
good info here considering i just picked up a super clean nx wet system for 200 bucks ..... ill be running a 65 shot on a d16a6 the only question that i have is do i need to use different plugs im currently running ngk irridiums there was no info about this.
