My setup is a turbo 2000 SiR running Uberdata with a 3inch Carsound cat, BKR7E plugs gapped at 0.030, and 94 octane. I've failed emissions 3 times now and here are my results.


1st try:

Hydro Carbons max: 0.3700 me: 1.1351 FAIL
Carbon Monoxide max 6.2100 me: 9.2975 FAIL
Oxides of Nitrogen max 0.9300 me: 0.5649 PASS


2nd try: retarded timing 3degrees, took some fuel out, changed spark plugs with same gap

Hydro Carbons max: 0.3700 me: 0.6860 FAIL
Carbon Monoxide max 6.2100 me: 7.9967 FAIL
Oxides of Nitrogen max 0.9300 me: 0.5251 PASS


3rd try: retarded timing another 3 degrees, took more fuel out, filled up on gas and put in a bottle of Guaranteed to Pass (ran it for 200kms, still have some left in the tank), and put in a 500ml bottle of methyl hydrate.... this was worse than the 2nd try

Hydro Carbons max: 0.3700 me: 0.7197 FAIL
Carbon Monoxide max 6.2100 me: 10.5753 FAIL
Oxides of Nitrogen max 0.9300 me: 0.5864 PASS

Here is a screen shot of the datalogging I did on the 3rd try. It looks pretty lean to me. Too lean perhaps? But I thought high HC and high CO usually means too rich?




Any tips/suggestions? (Besides driving around before, and revving up while waiting in line; I've tried both)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by red_sir &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It looks pretty lean to me. Too lean perhaps? But I thought high HC and high CO usually means too rich?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

high HCs usually mean you have unburnt fuel, clean your filter, or lower your F.P. if you have an adjustable F.P.R. Fixing your HC problem will probably fix your CO problem . . . b/c CO is just a measurement of engine efficiency.

 

is your cataylatic converter in?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AVATAR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

high HCs usually mean you have unburnt fuel, clean your filter, or lower your F.P. if you have an adjustable F.P.R. Fixing your HC problem will probably fix your CO problem . . . b/c CO is just a measurement of engine efficiency.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Did you look at the pic I posted? Is it still possible to have unburnt fuel with AFR's like those?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbo_Siii &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is your cataylatic converter in?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yup, it's a 3inch CarSound.

 

You're having exactly the opposite problem as me. Your failing bad on the HC and CO, but passing on the NOx. My problem is that my setup is running too lean. It looks like your is running too rich. I think you should probably add some fuel and put an OEM cat in. That is not the first time I've seen a Carsound fail the smog test.

Sonny

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by red_sir &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Did you look at the pic I posted? Is it still possible to have unburnt fuel with AFR's like those?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah I saw the pic . . . I also saw the numbers from the emission tests and I'm pretty sure you are still getting too much fuel, unless you have a lean misfire (which I think can happen but I could definately be wrong). You need to check to see that you're filter isnt clogged, pull some more fuel out somehow , or change the cat. I dunno man

 

The "alcohol trick" didn't do jack **** for me. I put in a gallon of denatured alcohol with 5 gallons of gas. I ran cleaner on the CO, but the NOx (the problem child) is the one that's still giving me problems.

My test is being done by a California State smog referee...by far the most rigid and strict test that I've ever had to do and probably the most strict test in the country! This guy made me feel like I had murdered someone. I had to explain every last detail of my swap (87 CRX Si w/completely rebuilt 89 Integra D16A1). I had the shop manual and every receipt there because I needed them on multiple occasions.

Anyway, I could probably easily pass if I could retard the timing a bit, but he said that in Cali, I have to pass at stock ignition timing. The ref is not allowed to help you figure out what is wrong, but after working on him a bit, he basically told me this:

1) It's not my cat because the HC and CO are super clean. If they were high and the NOx wasn't, the cat would be suspect. My cat was replaced with a new one 2 years ago right before I bought this car.

2) I'm not running too rich since HC and CO are super clean. I'm also getting about 35 mpg.

3) He basically said my combustion temps/pressures are too high. Do anything to reduce them. In my case, I did the alcohol thing plus 1 deg of retard on the exhaust cam and it didn't do anything except cost me a free test.

I think that more fuel will pass me and less fuel will pass and/or a new cat will pass red_sir.

Sonny

 

dump a gallon of methanol into a half tank of gas and see how that does. i bet you pass.

 

Thanks for the suggestions guy. I took out my cat, and it "looked" ok. The honeycomb stuff wasn't melted, and I didn't hear any rattles. I cleaned my filter and it looked dirty as hell. After I try to tune it a bit leaner, I'll use up the rest of the gas then put in a lot more methyl hydrate and try again. Wish me luck!

Sonny, I feel sorry for you. Passing emissions is hard enough, I can't imagine what a pain visual inspection must be.

 

you need to run lower octane

 

I know you said you already did it, but before the next test do about 15 minutes of straight highway driving (65-70 mph) all stready cruising. This gets your cat hotter than anything else.

Also, is this datalog all on part throttle? It almost looks like either your o2 is disabled/failing, or you have a horrible fuel map. It looks like all your a:f ratios from idle to ~1750 are passing through an extremely lean zone. You should see a more or less steady 14.7, with the slight exception of throttle tip-in. Right from about 2500 & 1.0 down to 3500 & 2.2 you looks like your map is fairly close (at least from an emissions standpoint) with only a few barely rich areas, which is fine for emissions usually because it's better to be slightly rich than slightly lean.


The golden number you want for emissions is 14.7, but I've always seen if all else fails, run a tiny bit rich (not lean) if you want to pass the sniffer test. See if you can change your fuel maps to something around 14.0-15.0 and give it another shot.

Ryan P.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ShowTymers619 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you need to run lower octane</TD></TR></TABLE>

What I was going to say

 

Ok, I went back again after leaning out my AFR. I'm SURE I'm not running rich this time. Here's the results.

Hydrocarbons (HC) max: 0.3700 me: 0.6152 FAIL
Carbon Monoxide (CO) max 6.2100 me: 1.5203 PASS
Oxides of Nitrogen (NOx) max 0.9300 me: 1.4924 FAIL

CO dropped dramatically, but NOx shot up. I'm guessing that's due to running lean. I believe I can get those two within specs with more tuning. What's confusing to me is that HC stayed pretty much the same regardless of running lean or rich.

What do I need to do to drop the HC? What do you guys think about:
1. Put back in stock plugs; my plugs now are 2 step colder.
2. Get a new cat.

Edit: With more research, it looks like lean conditions can cause high HC too. *sigh* this **** is so confusing. I guess I'll tune everything perfectly first, and if HC is still high then it's time for a new cat. Wish me luck on my 5th try. =/


Modified by red_sir at 6:32 PM 4/21/2004

 

i know its alot of work but what about taking the turbo off? run stock to get it tested?

 

Retard the F*CK out of your timing and unplug your PCV from the oil separator hose. I hate frigging AirCare.

 

How can we 96-up cars get around the OBDII port test if we have an OBDI computer? I have Hondata with a P72 and know my port does not work

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jonnybravo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How can we 96-up cars get around the OBDII port test if we have an OBDI computer? I have Hondata with a P72 and know my port does not work </TD></TR></TABLE>

not gonna happen

you need to put an obd2 computer in there for smog

 

They always check my OBD2 port but it never works. On the readout it says
"OBD II Communications: Incomplete(Advisory Only)" Luckily it's not required here to pass.

My last time going through AirCare the guy couldn't find my cat (I dunno how he missed it). He asked me to pop my hood and started looking for the cat there. Good thing he didn't know what an open dumptube is even though he was looking at it.

 

there is always a away around smog just cost bank

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by red_sir &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
My last time going through AirCare the guy couldn't find my cat (I dunno how he missed it). </TD></TR></TABLE>

I know how they missed it...

They're retarded there

 

LOL. So true.