Toda Party

iTrader: (2)

Take this story as you will. You decide what to think, I am telling straight facts. Its long, but i had to get it off my chest.

cliffs: got a used air manifold, asked why it was so, got offered a refund, took it, getting fucked on stupid shipping charges.

On Sept 25 I emailed Larry at Endyn for an AIR intake manifold. Blah blah we talked back and forth thru emails for a week or so, he gave me the pricing -

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Staff@theoldone.com to me
More options Sep 27

$1250.00 for the manifold, $50.00 for the IAC plate, $23.55 for UPS ground
shipping to your address.(texas to ny).</TD></TR></TABLE>

Fine, so I send him a check.

Check clears by 10/5 (tuesday). Remember I paid 23 dollars for shipping, so I'm assuming FedEx/UPS 2-3 day at most. Don't get it till the following tuesday. 23 dollars for US postal service shipping that took a week. Whatever, I just wanted my manifold.
Here's the email excerpt when I asked him for a tracking number.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Staff@theoldone.com to me
More options Oct 14

We do not provide tracking numbers to customers. Your package is scheduled
to be delivered on Oct 15, according to the latest UPS information
available.

- Show quoted text -</TD></TR></TABLE>

So the manifold didn't ship out till the 11th. 6 days after the check cleared (aka was returned to my bank). Whatever, that's fine.

So i Finally get it.
I'll let the emails do the talking.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
me to him:

just wondering if this manifold was used or test fit on something
because there's some scrapes form what looks like a fuel rail on the
runners, and rust on the flange and i can see the old bolt marks?

him to me:

We test fit every manifold here. When we haven't, there've been some
surprises on occasion. You'd think that with everything being CNC's, etc,
all would be the same, but occasionally there's one that'll bite you. It's a
lot easier for us to test fit all of them so we don't have to go through all
the return BS....
</TD></TR></TABLE>

here's the pics, i took, and showed him.






ok, so i can understand test fitting, fine, but would a shop, especially endyn use rusty bolts? i emailed him again asking then why if its test fit for clearance issues, why are there indentations on the runners from where a fuel rail was previously mounted? doesn't sound like clearance is good to me... and then why is the back of the manifold peeling and cracking, like it had maybe.. hmm hit the firewall maybe??

i was more worried about it holding up to a lot of boost, as this was for a customer, who was plannig to run about 25-30 psi out of a pretty big turbo. So i asked if the cracking and peeling would be allright with those kinds of boost levels, just to be safe.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Ok, I can understand that.

Please take a look at the pictures and let me know your opinion

---

I can't view the pictures. It says I have to have a password.
If you aren't satisfied with the manifold, we'll gladly refund your money
and issue a UPS call tag to retrieve it.

--

username and pword are both larry

i had uploaded the pics before you replied, so never mind the "used"
comments but there is a visible crack on the clear coat of the
manifold, which im just wary of becase I will be running 32psi thru
this manifold, and I dont need it cracking/exploding on me, especially
after I've installed it.

if u take a look and give the ok to use it, then i'll just use it.

---

Larry Widmer to me
More options Oct 16

We'll send a call tag and attempt to locate a manifold that's cosmetically
perfect for you.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ok, offered a refund

but never explained why the manifold was in that kind of condition. sounded pretty sarcastic to me in that last reply, so i sorta bitched him out about not being sarcastic about it, he said

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i'm not being sarcastic.
We operate here with customer pricing that nets us very, very little.
In the past, we've had many, many instances where providing customers with
tracking numbers has cost us additionally when delivery locations were
changed without our knowledge. The majority of vendors we deal with have the
same policy with tracking numbers.
There are NO dedicated sales people here. Everyone in the building is a
machinist, so when we're talking, or reading/writing emails, we're losing
time on projects.
We've entertained racers(rebuilt broken engines, components, etc) attending
the Nopi race in Houston last weekend, as well as racers fighting for points
in the season-ending Nopi race here this weekend.
I will contact you Monday and issue a call tag for the manifold. I will
replace it with one that's never been looked at by anyone here, or I'll
completely refund your money, and put you directly in touch with the vendors
that produce the manifolds, so you can do a direct-buy.
Larry Widmer

We're sending you a check. The manifold we shipped you was the latest piece
available with the bonded/riveted throttle cable bracket. There are
absolutely no flaws in the CF. There is a mold line that runs around the
piece centerline, just like there is on all the manifolds.
I've discussed the situation with AIR at length, and they agree that
returning your money is the only solution.
These manifolds are hard-core race parts, designed and manufactured for
performance only, and they were not intended for people looking for bling.
Your check is in the mail.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

here's my gripe: i shipped the manifold back to endyn for 1300 insured at fedex kinko's ground (3-5 business days) as a retail shipper for 11 dollars total.

i never got offered that "call tag" which i'm assuming was a credit for the shipping charge. then i spent another 11 shipping it back.

was I wrong to ask for a full refund, or at least return shipping for a defective/used manifold?

pretty disappointed with the customer service, i can understand being busy and all during race season, but if someone is spending 1300 dollars with you, you'd expect better.

im pretty sure he assumed I was some ricer with bolt ons who just wanted a cf manifold. i was going to keep it if he would have told me if it would've held up to boost levels as the ones I described to him, and if it would have, then it would have been no problem. He nevr answered the question, and just said here's a refund. oook. oh well.

not for bling lol

Modified by Toda Party at 5:40 PM 10/29/2004


Modified by Toda Party at 6:20 PM 10/29/2004

manekDC2.

wow man thats sucks.. its making me think twice thats for sure

SOUNDEFFECTS

Not tryign to take sides but...I would have just kept the manifold after hearing Larry explain that there was no other replacements.

I'm for the performance side but $1300 is expensive, you wouldn't even see anything once eveyrthing was put on the car. As long as it looked like it was put together good I would ride it.

But just let the $22 go and take the loss...IT hapeens but its not worth even getting upset about it

Steno

It looks like he was willing to work things out with you. I mean he did offer you a refund and you are getting upset over $22?

eddyboy

edit:



Modified by eddyboy at 8:25 PM 10/29/2004

Toda Party

iTrader: (2)

i'm upset because i spoke to another AIR dealer who gave me his opinion on it. i wont mention their name, but basically they said it was definitely used. i mean look at the pics (when the server goes back up), test fittings are one thing, what I received was definitely another.

if you had just spent 1300 dollars on a manifold and recieved it like that, you would not have been happy either. then to hear that's how they come originally? right...

how would AIR have even seen the pics? if he couldn't even get the pics to work, then im sure he didnt email air the links either.


edit - thanks for the host

m R g S r

Yea, but it's not really the cost that he should be pissed about. It's the fact that he was ripped off for shipping in the first place, and then had to pay again for it to return a faulty product.

Arturbo

There is definatly a flaw in the manifold as shown in the pics. Looks like this one may have been overlooked.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Toda Party &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how would AIR have even seen the pics? if he couldn't even get the pics to work, then im sure he didnt email air the links either.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
According to the email he stated, "I've discussed the situation with AIR at length, and they agree that returning your money is the only solution." No mention of looking at pics was ever made.

I hope you get this worked out. I understand you maybe upset but it does look like he did help you out. Have you asked for the $22?

art

10sec4door

I agree 1300, I want a perfect piece of equipment.

Toda Party

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Arturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
According to the email he stated, "I've discussed the situation with AIR at length, and they agree that returning your money is the only solution." No mention of looking at pics was ever made.

I hope you get this worked out. I understand you maybe upset but it does look like he did help you out. Have you asked for the $22?

art
</TD></TR></TABLE>

right, so its not like he described the condition of the manifold to air over the phone, so how much can u really discuss at length?

i wouldn't say helped me out, i'd be apalled if he refused a refund after I recieved a manifold like that. he said he'd issue a call tag, i sent it back because he never did. then i asked for a replacement manifold, as this one is obviously faulty, less ANOTHER shipping charge for the replacement manifold. he then said he'd just issue a refund, less shipping on the first manifold, and no reimbursment for return shipping.

so in my eyes, seeing as fedex was only 11 bucks, he mad 12 bucks on me bad customer service is the gripe here, not the petty amount of money

Toda Party

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Arturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Have you asked for the $22?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

here's the last 2 email conversations..

We're sending you a check. The manifold we shipped you was the latest piece
available with the bonded/riveted throttle cable bracket. There are
absolutely no flaws in the CF. There is a mold line that runs around the
piece centerline, just like there is on all the manifolds.
I've discussed the situation with AIR at length, and they agree that
returning your money is the only solution.
These manifolds are hard-core race parts, designed and manufactured for
performance only, and they were not intended for people looking for <u>bling.</u>
Your check is in the mail.
Larry

----

What is the amount of the refund?
Your official statement form both Endyn and AIR is that any manifold
ordered from AIR will look exactly like that? Chipped and cracking
clear coat? Rusted bolt holes? Marks from where a fuel rail was
previously mounted?

Gimmie a break lol.
I bet I wasn't even reimbursed the shipping I had to pay out of pocket
to ship that defective manifold back to you. Bling my ***, all I
wanted was a new manifold in new condition, not some piece of ****
that looks like its been used for a couple thousand miles.

Wow, I'm very disappointed in both you and your customer service.

fast94ex

I hate when people try to sell used parts as new. That thing was definately used, it seems to me that he offered you a refund in guilt when you asked if it was used. He knew it was and that you knew what was up, people are always trying to take advantage of us.

DIRep972

iTrader: (1)

Did he actually see these pics? Because it sounds to me like he thought he knew what you were talking about(which is the centerline defect) but since he hadn't actually seen the pics he couldn't see the other marks??? And he thought you were only complaining about the centerline mark that he already knew of which is what he has discussed w/ AIR.

Toda Party

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DIRep972 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did he actually see these pics? Because it sounds to me like he thought he knew what you were talking about(which is the centerline defect) but since he hadn't actually seen the pics he couldn't see the other marks??? And he thought you were only complaining about the centerline mark that he already knew of which is what he has discussed w/ AIR.</TD></TR></TABLE>

he saw it after i shipped it back to him

yeah i dont know he's very random with his emails

beerbongskickass

Why didn't you call him? If I was spending $1300 on something I would have defintely called. I probably would have wrote emails and letters too.

AlphaQup

They definitely have bad customer service because whoever packed the manifold saw first hand, the damages and random blemishes on the peice, and still packaged it. And who does that person work for? ----&gt; Endyn &lt;----

If it was used ("test fitted" ), they should have never sold it as "new"... period.


Modified by AlphaQup at 5:34 PM 10/29/2004

Stewie

I don't think you should be upset about losing the shipping charges. That's the way most of this stuff works.

However, I definitely understand where your coming from concerning the condition of that manifold. If definitely looks used and you were right to ask him about it. Even though you didn't get burned, I would imagine it's not fun playing around with high price parts. I would of expected things to much more professional.

sporkcrx

What an ***, if I paid over $1000 for an intake manifold, that **** better be flawless. Even if it's performance only, when you pay that much, you expect professional quality.

hadboosttroy

Just so you know, when it comes to shipping, prices are pretty rediculous for your average joe with no account with ups etc. I had to pay 30 bucks to ship ups ground an aem ems, and it was the same at every store. 30 bucks for roughly 7 days shipping He wasn't screwing you on shipping.

Flr Power

That is very sad. They new it was used and sold it as new. What a shame from trusted people...

SlowTeg

I understand your concern, and that's why myself as well as other old friends choose not to deal w/ Endyn anymore. We received a piston that had clearly been dropped prior to packaging, as well as several other problems and they/he were very reluctant to fix the problem. This was a good 3+ yrs ago, and it seems like not much has changed..

I don't think the shipping charge is unreasonable really... For insurance plus the shipping that sounds fair. Although, I completely understand where you're coming from. If I received a manifold that's clearly been used he shouldn't be sarcastic or difficult w/ you.

There are plenty of shady problems that people have had who have dealt w/ Endyn. It's sort of a hit or miss w/ them, you either get very good work, or very shitty work. The customer service is all dependent on what mood Larry's in. Good luck.

-Mike

Toda Party

iTrader: (2)

like i said originally, when i shipped the manifold back to him, i went to FedEx at Kinko's, as a walk in retail customer. I sent it back in the original box fedex ground with 1300 dollars insurance and it came out to 10.xx , so 11 dollars.

he shipped it UPS so i guess maybe they're THAT much more expensive, plus he's probably got a business account with them...either way, it was just a shitty situation overall with no tracking number cuz it costs too much?? when its already 23 bucks lol... saying he'll issue a call tag, not doing it, acting like the manifold is new and they're all that new.. bahh shadyness man so

earl

That manifold looks like it was test fitted on an engine (including a fuel rail) but I don't think it was used. There are no signs of that. I don't have any idea if the manifold was defective or not but if you were buying it for the bling factor, then you could never appreciated the real benefits of it anyway. You would be much happier with a polished Venom manifold that won't make as much power. I'm sure Larry would refund the shipping as it seems that is what is really bothering you.

Toda Party

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That manifold looks like it was test fitted on an engine (including a fuel rail) but I don't think it was used. There are no signs of that. I don't have any idea if the manifold was defective or not but if you were buying it for the bling factor, then you could never appreciated the real benefits of it anyway. You would be much happier with a polished Venom manifold that won't make as much power. I'm sure Larry would refund the shipping as it seems that is what is really bothering you.</TD></TR></TABLE>

First of all it was for a customer, and it wasn't for the bling. Just because we're younger doesn't mean we're ricers... no offense to you earl, but why does everyone go ahead and assume we're buying it for the bling factor? I just don't think its too much to ask for something in better condtion, aka NEW, than what I got in the box from them for 1300 bucks.

larry did at first say he'd cover shipping back as far as I understood, but i've written back to him asking what the amount of the refund was, im going to go ahead and assume that it was for 1300 even, less shipping to me, and back to him. live and learn, i wanted people to know how the real people got treated, endyn might bs cool to the big dogs and good for him and them, but as far as im concerned their service was unacceptable, and i would never ever buy anything from them again. i only bought from him because endyn is the only dealer listed on their site.

rioninja

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Toda Party &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What is the amount of the refund?
Your official statement form both Endyn and AIR is that any manifold
ordered from AIR will look exactly like that? Chipped and cracking
clear coat? Rusted bolt holes? Marks from where a fuel rail was
previously mounted?

Gimmie a break lol.
I bet I wasn't even reimbursed the shipping I had to pay out of pocket
to ship that defective manifold back to you. Bling my ***, all I
wanted was a new manifold in new condition, not some piece of ****
that looks like its been used for a couple thousand miles.

Wow, I'm very disappointed in both you and your customer service.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

It doesnt seem like you were being very civil in your emails. Its understandable IMO the way larry responded to your emails. Also the whole shipping deal is just a fact of life when your ordering parts. You agreed to the shipping price when you ordered the part, so i dont understand the problem.