cfwthb_94

Trying to pin down where I need to start looking for the problem. I have a b16 84mm w/ g.e. oem 84mm h.g. Car is used as a drag car and little street use. Every time I take it down the track I have to put in a little bit, like a cup, of water after every pass. The car does smoke on start up and keeps smoking. The head was previously on a different motor that I had before this one and did the same thing too. That motor didn't last long, cracked a sleeve, for me to really try to figure this out. The head had just come from the machine shop with a valve job, 12 new oem valves, exhaust valve guides also, and resurfaced. Could my problem be all in my head? Just trying to figure out what I need to look for and check before I blow this motor up also. Any help is appreciated. thanks

SilverEk3dr

I would try a leakdown test, or just pressurize the cylinders and double check that it doesnt push water out of the radiator or bubble. Then if it does that prob pull the head and double check for cracks and have the deck/sleeves checked to make sure they perfect.


Edit: Prob even easier to just start the motor with the radiator cap off and see if it doenst sit there an bubble the whole time or try to push all the water out.. Might wanna raise the revs a little too just to see.

cfwthb_94

Ok thanks for the help. I'm guessing that the correct way would be for the water to just sit there and not bubble and not rise or fall?

cfwthb_94

Here's some video's of the radiator with the cap off and I tried to video the smoke from the exhaust but it's kind of hard to capture.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFF2KQPXSeo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jVRdA4NbYk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy3hZDfvS48

cfwthb_94

anyone else have any insight?

cfwthb_94

I did a leak down test last night and #1 10% #2 20% #3 30% #4 25%. And I had no bubbling coming from the radiator. Just air coming from the valve cover.

Cyphear

Does the coolant look clean (no soot)? Pull you dipstick and make sure your oil doesn't look milky.

No leaks (on the floor), right?

Oil cooled turbo, right?

ninesecrx

When you rev the engine with rad cap off, water will rise as you are making the water pump spin harder. The leakdown should have made bubbles come out if there is a problem. Air from the valve cover is normal. You have gaps in your rings so some air and some leakdown has to occur. Who sleeved the block?

cfwthb_94

The cooland does look clean, and there's no milky water/oil on the dipstick. Yes no leaks on the floor. I have found a leak around where the temp. sensor is, but wouldn't figure that it would be causing that much loss. I had only distilled water and redline water wetter. Turbo is a t3/t4.

The block was sleeved by Golden Eagle. It was their previous sleeves,before the H.D. series. It was done by the previous owner. Thanks for the piece of mind ninesecrx!

cfwthb_94

I took the distributor, coolant housing, vtec solenoid all off, and tightend up the two sensors, and both cooland ports. I also redid the coolant housing just in case, and put antifreeze in so I could actually see it now if it leaks.

is it possible that the turbo could be blowing white smoke with a tint too it out the exhaust?

sevenj

did you check for the milky oil? no milky oil than I would not suggest the head gasket. do you have arp head studs you know they changed the tourque on b16 b18 to 80lbs. had that problem with bad info on torque specks and was spouting water out of overflow can when boosting 20lbs.

cfwthb_94

Yes I checked for the milky oil. Yes I have arp head studs and I torqued them down to 80lbs

boostB4beauty

i would still say HG

blaze the chemi

Why was the head redone with only 12 valves to begin with? What happened to cause this?

A friend of mine is also having issues with his car. He fills up the overflow every few days and nothing is wrong so far in the diagnostic tests. We are as stumped as you. This started after bending 7 valves and having the head redone.

ninesecrx

I would check for a dropped sleeve if you plan to take the head off. I have seen cars smoke yet the engine runs fine with a slightly dropped sleeve.

cfwthb_94

Well that's not what I want to hear, but it could be the truth. Because if that's the case than it was sold to me that way.

The head came off my 95 integra. I missed fourth gear and bent all but 4 intake valves. The machine shop just used 12 oem valves and did a valve job on their Serdi machine.

What is the proper procedure to check for a sunk sleeve or to see if the surface is perfectly flat? I would imagine that you would use a straight edge and go diagnol long ways, but what size feeler guage is the accepted tolerance or is it .000?

Cyphear

Does the exhaust have white smoke? You can tell if the engine is burning coolant by doing a exhaust gas analyzer and looking at the level of hydrocarbons.

It seems weird to me that it would burn that much under WOT (at the track). My mind thinks that the cylinders would be pressurized and not sucking in coolant.

ninesecrx

We use a bridge with a dial indicater to check if a sleeve has sunk. You can use a straight edge like you said as well, just isnt as accurate. I have seen smoke come out of tail pipes even with .001 down. I hope it is not your problem either, but something that needs to be checked if all else fails.

cfwthb_94

one thing I forgot to mention was that we did a pressure test at the radiator. Pumped it up to about 22psi and the guage bleed off at a decent rate. I don't know what that says about my motor setup or the effinciency.

cfwthb_94

I think I'm going to just pull the head, check the block, send the head to another shop to have them check it over. And if everything pans out I'll just put a new head gasket on and hope for the best.

I love learning about how everything works and being able to learn to trouble shoot, I just don't like the having to spend money part. lol and I know if you do it right the first time you won't have to worry about it. But damn that just cost so much up front.

cfwthb_94

went to the track tonight. And after the first pass I had milkyness on the bottom of the oil cap. So I pulled the valve cover and it was all over the bottom side of it. But good news is that it wasn't on the dipstick, in the oil that was sitting in the head, or in the radiator fluid. I did run a 11.8@124 though, not on full boost. After that I put new plugs in and put everything back to normal and went home. Tomarrow I take the head off.

philafelman

i would think the cylinders could draw in coolant on the intake stroke...

if youre going to pull the head...make sure you straight edge the block and head.

HiProfile

Most rad caps are set to ~16psi, so any pressure leakage in the system is unacceptable. I can only guess your fan is not enough, your coolant heats past 210F durring the runs, and pisses out some hidden leak. Pressure test it again, but no more than 17psi. You need to find where it's leaking pressure to, as that's where the fluid will be escaping. Remember to check in each cylinder, as well as the heater core.

If your coolant system can't keep 16psi of pressure, it means it will boil the coolant at a lower temp. It's a bad situation, since a hot Honda can heat the coolant to normal boiling temps.


BTW smoke from oil isn't always noticably blue. Sometimes it looks more like white, and gets mistaken with coolant.

cfwthb_94

While driving to the track I noticed that it mainly smoked on decel, that's where I could see a huge puff of smoke out the back when I look out the mirror.

I plan to straight edge the block and have the head looked at by a different head shop other than the one that did the work. I'm going to take laskey's advice and get a bridge and dial indicator, to check stuff out.


HiProfile: I wasn't sure how high you were supposed to pressurize the cooling system and so the guy that did it just put it where he normally does it, because it wasn't on this radiator cap. Well on the run last night my coolant temps were around 155 deg on burn out and on the return road, right after the run, were at 185 deg. There was water leaking around the passenger side of the head, but that's fixed now and no longer leaking from there. I have checked all over the motor and have not found any visiable signs on leakage. I even used coolant this time instead of water and water wetter.

Hopefully it was just user error on installing the head gasket and not a sunk sleeve. :cross my fingers:

Thanks for all the help, and I'll keep this updated so maybe someone might use this as a reference later on.

ALSO no heater core

cfwthb_94

Here's a video from last night. I wanted to share it to also show how much the track likes imports, half way down the track listen to what he has to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2w4bMKXjj8