blwn95civic

well im coming close to putting my kit on, and i have a question about the boost controller... its going to be controlled by a turbo xs dual stage boost controller, from the way ive heard ppl talk you just wire it to a switch and can flip from low boost to high boost by flipping the switch... one of my friends wired his nitrous selenoid to a trigger style switch on the shift ****, he had it machined to where it was flush except for the button and used this to spray his car, now my question is if i wired the same system he used on his car for my boost controller would this work?? can i just go to high boost with the push of a button like he could spray? or would this be hard on the controller or wastegate to just be going to high boost while the turbo is spooled?

thanks for any help and keep the smart comments off my page, thanks

alex_s817

im pretty sure you can flip the switch on the fly, even under full boost. someone correct me if im wrong, but i think i read this on a sellers website

blwn95civic

ok then if so i should be able to wire the boost controller like that somehow... the reason im wanting to do this is for taking off and traction control, cuz i'll manually be able to switch to low boost if wheel spin or if the car hooks go to high boost with the push of a button, and for when ppl wanna mess around at red lights, i can just play with em lol

any more advise or info is appreciated

alex_s817

yes, you mount a swith inside the cabin somewhere, and you flip from low to high, high to low. pretty cool set-up i think

LSReborn

Its going to be a hard on your motor if its not tuned to handle different boost levels on the fly . The only ems that I know that's capable is AEM, Motec, Haltec and all the expesive ones out there.

It wont be hard on the wastegate and turbo.

Spec R_GSR

i heard this can be done with the Greddy Profec Spec B

2point2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LSReborn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its going to be a hard on your motor if its not tuned to handle different boost levels on the fly . The only ems that I know that's capable is AEM, Motec, Haltec and all the expesive ones out there.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why?

adseguy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2point2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Why?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Because you need a $10,000 stand alone fuel managment system. IMO it's not a bad way to spend $10,000.


To the OP. For the TurboXS dual stage you are going to actually need a switch. What most people have with there boost controllers are whats called momentary push button. It sends a quick signal to the controller to tell it "Hey...he pushed the button" the controller does the rest be it an ECU or a boost controller. Yuo uhave neither and you will physically have to turn the boost controller on and keep it on for the duration of the run. So if you mount a switch somewhere make sure it's an on/off switch. These are great for launching and keep lower boost in the first few gears. I highly recommend it

beerex80

The only way you can use the same switch is with a 5 pin relay because of the switch being only one set of momentary normally open contacts. So you would have to run 12 volt through the switch and fire the relay. using the normally closed contact for low boost and the normally open for high.

2point2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by adseguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Because you need a $10,000 stand alone fuel managment system. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Why?

LSReborn

Why??? Because when your motor is tuned for a specific boost level and when you raise/decrease boost, you need to accommodate the boost level with the proper a/f ratio and ignition timing. If not, say good bye to your motor. Unfortunately the greddy spec b cant adjust the ignition and fuel.

0morgan@synapse motorsport

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LSReborn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its going to be a hard on your motor if its not tuned to handle different boost levels on the fly . The only ems that I know that's capable is AEM, Motec, Haltec and all the expesive ones out there.

It wont be hard on the wastegate and turbo.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you are wrong, even the less expensive solutions handle this fine. expensive ems or not the ecu can only handle the most amount of boost the ems has been tune to. expensive or not the ecu's seek the load and rpm values so as long as the ecu has been tuned properly it should have no problem providing an accurate tune on a high or low boost setting on the fly.

to the op, as long as the car has been tuned to the amount you intend to boost with that push button then it should be safe.


Modified by mike@synapse motorsport at 9:36 PM 4/4/2007

SOHC_MShue

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LSReborn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its going to be a hard on your motor if its not tuned to handle different boost levels on the fly . The only ems that I know that's capable is AEM, Motec, Haltec and all the expesive ones out there.

It wont be hard on the wastegate and turbo.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Stop spewing misinformation. If you dont know what the hell you are talking about then dont post at all . There are plenty of cheaper engine managment solutions that can do this on a honda.

LSReborn

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mike@synapse motorsport &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

you are wrong, even the less expensive solutions handle this fine. expensive ems or not the ecu can only handle the most amount of boost the ems has been tune to. expensive or not the ecu's seek the load and rpm values so as long as the ecu has been tuned properly it should have no problem providing an accurate tune on a high or low boost setting on the fly.

to the op, as long as the car has been tuned to the amount you intend to boost with that push button then it should be safe.


Modified by mike@synapse motorsport at 9:36 PM 4/4/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow... I didnt say that only AEM and other expensive ems can handle boost. Of course theres others that are way more affordable like crome,neptune and hondata but can you name one that switch base maps on the fly when you want extra boost??

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Stop spewing misinformation. If you dont know what the hell you are talking about then dont post at all . There are plenty of cheaper engine managment solutions that can do this on a honda. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Obviously. So if im spewing out misinformation, tell him its safe to increase boost on the go.

LSReborn

Taken from team-integra.net under the FI, performance article Turbo FAQ

"Is it ok for a daily driver at 7-10 psi and 13 at the track."

This is a NO NO someone tell me what's wrong with this statement ?

When you tune your tuning for what ? AFR ! Guess what....When you tune the car at 10psi and then head down to your local track and crank it up to 13psi !!! What do you think happens to your AFR ? You guessed it... It's not the same as 10psi !!! What does this mean ?
NOT SMART huh....DUH !

When you tune on a dyno and set your AFR and your at 10-psi, that's what your tuning is set at !!! PERIOD ! Crank that psi up and all the $$$ you just spent went down the drain because your NOT properly tuned anymore ! When you crank up the boost your pushing more air in the motor and this means your AFR = AIR FUEL RATIO has NOW CHANGED !!!= RISK ! HIGH RISK !! DANGER ! Not smart ! When you tune, your tuned ! LEAVE it alone or your NOT tuned anymore ! Now, now you stand alone guys read below...

Let me clearify a bit more on the tune for proper afr and set it and forget it...

What that means is you need to load another fuel map for that psi level if you were to crank up the boost from 10 to say 13-15psi.
If your runing a stand alone system. But again keep this in mind.
You still need to tune proper ! You know your ecu can read boost
So those who use a Stand Alone FMS/EMS such as Hondata and AEM, have the ability to crank the boost up after a tune anytime ! These units have what is called a "Learning Mode" !

It means that, if in the case you are with the AEM/EMS...This unit has the ability to adjust your AFR needs on the fly and...(this is the part I love about the AEM/EMS) It will RECORD that info and burn it to your chip and VIOLA you got yourself a new map to load at will !! Now tell me that isn’t some kick **** Technology !!!

The Hondata can do the same thing..But you have to buy the data logger function as an add on to tweak and tune yourself
$$ spend it
It still has "Learning Mode" so your pretty safe.

The base Hondata unit is cheaper than the AEM/EMS, but in the end...If you want all the features of the Hondata you just pay for them. The AEM system has them already packaged in!...(hence the price is higher)
So in the end it will cost you about the same for the fully loaded Hondata. But it's soooo easy to tune with.

Tuning with the AEM, we all know requires more time and skill and can be more expensive...But guess what ? AEM has a school for ANY and ALL qualified tuners to learn this NEW system ! And.....Oh it gets better...They have excellent product support and a great forum to help the end user get to where they want too on there OWN !

Hondata has the same deal and their system is proven to work (it’s been out longer) FYI the s200 ROCKS ! But you get the idea here....Hell go MoTeC and it blows them all out of the water....But then again that's for the REAL race cars !!!!

Don't forget about the other guys who make Stand Alone FMS/EMS units.
( I am not going to list them all ) Apex-i has just released their verison of a FMS/EMS called "Power FC"...It is for 96-98 Integra GSR/LS/Type R (U.S.) Hopefully we will see availability soon for earlier model Tegs.

DEAR GOD AN THE FOR LOVE OF PETE DONT WIMP OUT HERE.
STAND ALONE STAND ALONE STAND ALONE...




Modified by LSReborn at 2:22 AM 4/5/2007

BEST1TUNING.COM

^ That is some of the most worthless information I have read in a long time. I would definately question that persons ability to get anywhere NEAR any EMS, stand alone or not.

If we were talking about an alternate injection system (nitrous etc.) then yes a map switch would be appropriate since at the same given rpm and load point we would call for a change in fuel delivery and ign timing. For boost, however, Ill 100% agree with mike@synapse motorsport and SOHC_MShue and Im sure many more who understand how the ECU uses fuel/ign tables will agree as well.

Fuel/ign tables work on load (in this case manifold pressure) and rpm for boost and sometimes tps for ITB. For all combinations of load seen by the map/maf sensor and rpm there is a represented fuel/ign value. Some maps have more fuel ign values than others depending on the resolution of the maps. The higher the resolution the more broad a range of available rpm and load points .


So if we want to run 15 psi, staged or not, we need to have maps with load scales all the way up to 15 psi. Even though our maps are setup for a max of 15 psi...we still have the load points of 7psi 9psi 11psi etc all the way to 15psi. If we want to stage the boost however, its not JUST as simple as tuning for 15 psi or JUST tuning 7 psi because there will still be the spool-up transition from 7psi to 15 psi as well as a variation depending on what rpm he decides to press the button. In order to better understand this concept you need to be familiar with the "trail" that the ECU takes when grabbing fuel/ign values from the maps as RPM and boost is climbing. This will all vary with each setup. A map trace feature is very helpful when tuning this type of staged setup, since it will highlight the trail of values used by the ECU durring the transition.

Since this user wants to be able to press the button for more boost at any time I am assuming he may want to push the button after he has already spooled the first stage of boost while still in a single gear. The best way to tune this type of setup wich is not rpm dependent or gear dependent but instead USER dependent, is to first tune the lesser stage of boost. Once tuned at that stage note at what rpm the turbo was able to fully spool. This will let you know that for the most part only rpm points AFTER this point will need to be tuned since the turbo is not going to spool anything more than 7psi earlier than it spools 7psi. Have the user then engage the second stage at a few points where they feel they will be most likely to engage it. Tune the transition to 15 psi from these rpm points as well as all the values in the 15 psi column down to redline.

This will give you a SINGLE (not counting high/low cam) fuel map which has a well tuned 7 psi pull as well as a tuned transition to 15 psi from a range of rpm points.

There is no need for a switch to another map because we can increase the resolution to handle 15 psi, not just 7 psi. I think a few people might not have a clear understanding of how fuel/ign maps work.

As a final note, whoever posted that in "team-integra.net" is in no proper state of mind to be posting anything about EMS or tuning...rereading his post I am not too sure exactly what state of mind he is in period.

LSReborn you have to understand that simply giving information based on a very misleading post that you read on another forum when you yourself have little experience tuning EMS does not help any one because you are unable to validate the information...which in this case is not valid at all.

trav95civic, You will be fine with this setup as long as it is tuned properly, wich does NOT mean a "STAND ALONE STAND ALONE STAND ALONE" and does NOT require you to switch maps.

alex_s817

^ good to know, i aways thought you just tuned for the highest, and then manually turned it down. thanks for the info, now i will make sure my tuner can do it before i buy it

adseguy

Quoted so others can rip on this if they want. I'm gonna lay back with my popcorn on this one.

You sir are really misinformed and have zer....wait that's too much -5 points on tuning knowledge and how MAP based systems work.....and becasue your atitude sounds very "prikish" I can't wait to see this develop ...GL

SOHC_MShue

So basically what your saying is you have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to tuning. I didn't have to read past the first couple of paragraphs to see that. Obviously you dont know how to tune and like others said..have a very misinformed understanding on how fuel and timing maps work with different loads. If your understanding is correct then i wonder how the stock ecu can compensate for partial loads. You just have to retune the entire map if you want to run -10inhg rather than 10psi .

Running925

i really can't believe that people are posting this crap!

if you had any understanding of fuel maps or have even looked at one before, you would realize that it doesn't matter what amount of boost or load you flip your damn switch to, it's reading from a different cell in the map, therefor as long as the cell that is being read from has the correct parameters in it, the car will run properly.

this crap is the type of screwed up info that has people comming me to and arguing with me over how their car should be tuned, coz some guy on HT said "this".

go learn something.. or read a map!

Running925

ok.. if my last reply was a little harsh or complicated.. and you are a visual learner then read this map.

Compaire 8 pounds of boost at 5000rpms value to 15lbs of boost at the same or greater rpm. You will see that if u follow the boost pressure column, down to the rpm row, that you will come up with different values for each. Therefor, at each boost level your car has the oppurtunity to run correctly, regardless of the amount of boost because it will be recieving different insturctions per cell that it is reading from in the map.

LSReborn

Then i was miss guided by the article. I believed that chipped ecu programs like crome, hondata, neptune etc couldnt do such a thing. I guess not according to besttuning. Thanks to a couple of you for backing up your info rather than stating something and running away.


Modified by LSReborn at 5:49 PM 4/5/2007

0morgan@synapse motorsport

thats crome, yes that article is very incorrect. on a positive note though there is some good feedback here on how an ems actually works in relation to boost level.