80884

Long story short, I got a Tial BOV as part of a payment for doing headgaskets on a turbo mustang. Wanted to check out what spring was in it and see if I needed to get a different one for my application. Took the valve apart and the spring has about 1" cut off of it. The part that was cut off was not in the BOV, I figured on it being an inch when comparing it to another tial bov spring, white was the other spring color. Either way,

Why would you cut one of these springs and does it actually serve any purpose other than me needing to get a new spring? Just wondering why or where someone got the idea to cut the spring in the first place. I never came accross this before on a bov.

turboteg2nv

It's not an adjustable blow-off valve and if you're running low boost, it may not open (or very little). So whoever was probably trying to make less resistance to make the BOV open easier. It's not unheard of, I know people even do it to adjustable BOVs such as the Greddy Type-S.

mike93eh2

tial uses different spring pressures depending on the application..

i needed less spring pressure so i just cut the spring and all is good..

http://www.tialsport.com/docum...p.pdf

Synapse

I call b***sh*t, can't do the math to come out with the right BOV I guess

TiAL

Care to explain that one chief?


and yes to the original poster, spring rates go by in/hg...cutting it alters when the BOV will open, use the chart linked and that will tell you what spring you need

80884

Thanks, I was planning on replacing the spring with the correct one need for my app based on the chart on the tial site. I was just wondering what cutting the spring will do as far as how the bov would function after the modded spring.

Time to get a vac reading...

TiAL

make sure the car has warmed up before you do

Synapse

Why do users even have to switch springs around just to match their setup? It is a push-type BOV that is opened by boost in the intercooler pipe, right? You know the surface are of the valve, idle vac is 10.5 psi, and you know what the pre-load force of the spring is right? Why would you have to change springs?

I'm pretty sure pi()*R^2 still works.

BTW, I think its crap that Turdosmart knocked off your BOV

TiAL

It's not a push type valve, it opens in direct relation to vacuum

Synapse

So then, why the different springs? Vacuum doesn't change as you change the motor, or across motors. A stiffer spring means that it won't open as easy given that the vacuum is the same, so then it must be the higher boost that opens it right, when you put in a stiffer spring?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvnBDlXyheI

Can you explain to us what's going on here? And, if you are expected to put in a stiffer spring with higher boost, then is it acceptable as a design to surge at lower boost pressures? So if someone decides to cruise around town at say 5 psi, then race at 15 psi, that they are expected to swap springs every time they switch boost levels around?

93supercoupe

U better be ready to sell a bunch of these things

This is going to be a crazy bandwagon, a goodne, but still a wagon none the less.

mike93eh2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Synapse &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So then, why the different springs? Vacuum doesn't change as you change the motor, or across motors. A stiffer spring means that it won't open as easy given that the vacuum is the same, so then it must be the higher boost that opens it right, when you put in a stiffer spring?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvnBDlXyheI

Can you explain to us what's going on here? And, if you are expected to put in a stiffer spring with higher boost, then is it acceptable as a design to surge at lower boost pressures? So if someone decides to cruise around town at say 5 psi, then race at 15 psi, that they are expected to swap springs every time they switch boost levels around?</TD></TR></TABLE>

dude, you dont put a different spring in it depending on your boost levels.. its your vacuum levels.. i dont know if you know this but engines have different vacuum levels. a big v8 isnt going to have the same vacuum reading as a honda....etc.

EDIT: oh! and in that video the dumbasses have to big of a spring in the tial bov.. it should be open at idle. no wonder why its not working properly.. the spring pressure is too high.

TiAL

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dude, you dont put a different spring in it depending on your boost levels.. its your vacuum levels.. i dont know if you know this but engines have different vacuum levels. a big v8 isnt going to have the same vacuum reading as a honda....etc.

EDIT: oh! and in that video the dumbasses have to big of a spring in the tial bov.. it should be open at idle. no wonder why its not working properly.. the spring pressure is too high.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

amazing isnt it? his product is so much better and so much more advanced, yet he can't figure out how ours works? if he doesnt know how our BOV works/sets it up, how is it inferior again? and how is it a truthful demonstration? ah yes! cheap marketing! try to fool the people who don't know any better

I have an idea, AFTER your products have proven themselves, AFTER they have NHRA, IHRA, ALMS, NMRA, NMCA, GT and NOPI titles under their belt and AFTER you get an actual true demonstration set up, THEN and ONLY THEN can you say our wg/BOV is inferior and a diaphragm design doesn't work.

Had you come out, promoted your product and said what was different, and not made any direct comparisons/false claims we would have kept quiet, TiAL has NEVER attacked another compay - we have simply said this is our product, this is how it works.

be sure to look forward to OUR tests and reviews if you ever get the product released, and I assure you, the test will actually be FAIR and we will set up both products CORRECTLY.

CivicVX94

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TiAL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
be sure to look forward to OUR tests and reviews if you ever get the product released, and I assure you, the test will actually be FAIR and we will set up both products CORRECTLY.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Early in for test results

80884

Why do people always try to reinvent the wheel? The Tial BOV has been proven for years, if it didn't work right that would have been evident by now and they would no longer be selling them. Not saying that you shouldn't try to improve an existing product but back it up with more tecnical test and data before bashing an already proven product.

So to answer another question, should the valve be open or closed at Idle?

Maybe I'll try this cut spring in my wastegate (tial 44) to see what it will do, lol. J/K

Synapse

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TiAL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">TiAL has NEVER attacked another compay</TD></TR></TABLE>

You know this is a bunch of BS, Greg. The product isn't even out yet and you're already talking crap. The product will prove itself. And there are some high profile customers of yours that are switching over, so we'll just have to wait and see which racer's problems are solved by our WG's and BOVs.

And regarding the video, your instructions state to measure vacuum, then choose the appropriate spring. The spring in that BOV is the spring for -18-21". No magic, no deception. Now, if you're telling me that I'm supposed to put in the lightest one for -10-13", the instructions don't exactly say that.

TiAL

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You know this is a bunch of BS. The product isn't even out yet and you're already talking crap</TD></TR></TABLE>

WRONG, this is what YOU are doing

only reason I said anything is because YOU started this whole BS marketing ploy.

TiAL

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So to answer another question, should the valve be open or closed at Idle?</TD></TR></TABLE>

it should be on the verge of opening, but closed if that makes sense

turboteg2nv

This is getting pretty heated. And from an engineering standpoint that test wasn't standardized at all.

TiAL

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is getting pretty heated. And from an engineering standpoint that test wasn't standardized at all.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
what? you mean revving a car in neutral isn't an accurate way of testing BOV functionality? LOL

Synapse

Sure Greg, and defacing our logos on Xceedspeed.com wasn't talking crap?

Why don't we get a magazine to test our BOVs side by side? Are you game?

TiAL

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sure Greg, and defacing our logos on Xceedspeed.com wasn't talking crap?
Why don't we get a magazine to test our BOVs side by side? Are you game?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

OH, you mean when you came on with the name 'protrans' with a fake location of Farmington Hills to try to convince people that you were someone else? that time on xceedspeed? again, the logo (which wasn't made by us) was in DIRECT relation to your little videos....lots of cause and effect going on here....everything YOU are whining about was essentially caused by yourself. Do you honestly think we havn't been monitoring your every move since mid-last year?

A magazine to test the BOV's side by side? sure, send us one of your BOV's (if they exist) so we can get the same information you have about ours, then after we are done with it we would LOVE to do a side by side comparison with a HIGH-PROFILE magazine. Hell, we may even be able to supply the 6 second drag car to test them on.

a little FYI...this isn't Gregg

well, my 5 post count limit is up for the day, we will be waiting on that BOV

ryan89crx

:grabs popcorn:

id definitely like to see real world comparisons

Synapse

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TiAL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
A magazine to test the BOV's side by side? sure, send us one of your BOV's (if they exist) so we can get the same information you have about ours, then after we are done with it we would LOVE to do a side by side comparison with a HIGH-PROFILE magazine. Hell, we may even be able to supply the 6 second drag car to test them on.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

So, let me use a racing analogy. You want me to send you my racecar, so you can tinker with it, understand how it works, and then meet up with you at the track and race?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TiAL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

OH, you mean when you came on with the name 'protrans' with a fake location of Farmington Hills to try to convince people that you were someone else? that time on xceedspeed? again, the logo (which wasn't made by us) was in DIRECT relation to your little videos....lots of cause and effect going on here....everything YOU are whining about was essentially caused by yourself.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

There were no Tial videos before Xceedspeed.com postings, that's where the motivation came from. And if it wasn't done by your people, then why stick up for them? The first Tial video is date stamped 3/5/07 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjNbMTLzZck, your bashing started in August of 2006 http://www.xceedspeed.com/foru...57778


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TiAL &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Do you honestly think we havn't been monitoring your every move since mid-last year?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm quite flattered that the all prestigious Tial would have nothing better to do than to keep tabs on a small company with no product and worthless designs out of California, when you're too busy winning LeMans and NHRA. Kinda says that you're at least a little bit threatened, if not completely afraid of becoming obsolete. I gotta pat myself on the back a little for designing something worthy of putting you on Mylanta. Were you watching when our wastegate won Best New Product at SEMA? The product has to and will prove itself in the market.

EJ1 wilcox

I would take your argument off this thread if I were you.

Arguing doesn't help anyones reputation no matter who's right and who's wrong. Especially since you are representing the companies you work for.

That's just the business person in me speaking though.