Kwuaymaikrup

Ok so I am looking to purchase some race gas and just realized I have a few options. I am wondering if there is a major difference between manufacturers or is it basically all the same??? Sunoco, VP, and 76 are the 3 major ones I am considering. Is one particullarilly better than the other? Until my recent search I haden't though about 76 race fuel. If someone could shed a little light it would be appreciated. I just want to get the best bang for my buck. (no pun intended)

-Ryan

DaveF

feel free to correct me if im wrong but...i believe the VP C16 is actually 117 octane. dunnno if this helps you but...

Enthalpy

if you are goign to call out Octane numbers make sure to reference whether it si RON, MON or R+M/2. there can be vast variances between 2 fuels that are both "117" for instance.

example :

fuel A has a research ocatne of 117.

fuel b has a R+M/2 octane of 117.

Fuel C has a Motor Octane of 117.

Fuel C is going to offer the most resistance to detonation at real world conditions. Motor octane tests are a great deal tougher than Research tests, motor tests have more heat adn RPM involved in the test. C16 is actually a very nice fuel becasue it's RON, MON, and R+M/2 are all almost identical. this makes C16 a very predictable and stable fuel at most conditions...you dont have to worry about octane decreasign as much as temp, pressure adn RPM increase

if you ahve a fuel that is say 117 RON, but only 110 MON, the fuel can be said to have the detontaion resistance of VP 110 under real world conditions(all VP fuels are rated by MON exclusively..they list RON..but just to demonstrate stability). but furthermore you can assume that the tougher things get in the engine the less protection you are going to get fom detontation.

Scott

Kwuaymaikrup

Anyone else? Tuners out there, what fuel do you prefer? Does one seem to give a better/easier tune?

Kataku2K3

Of the higher boost cars (Duc, Brian, David, Will, etc.) we run/tune them on VP110 which MON is ~107... Ralph's Supra runs VPNOS which rated at 120.3 (MON) but that stuff is sorta spendy... After the Supra motor spun a bearing last year we had a bunch of NOS left over so we used it on Duc's motor but really we didn't notice any difference over the 110...

Blown90hatcH

Haha....Scott your spelling gets worse everytime I see you post. Damn mechanical engineers.

0x64Work

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Enthalpy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you are goign to call out Octane numbers make sure to reference whether it si RON, MON or R+M/2. there can be vast variances between 2 fuels that are both "117" for instance.

example :

fuel A has a research ocatne of 117.

fuel b has a R+M/2 octane of 117.

Fuel C has a Motor Octane of 117.

Fuel C is going to offer the most resistance to detonation at real world conditions. Motor octane tests are a great deal tougher than Research tests, motor tests have more heat adn RPM involved in the test. C16 is actually a very nice fuel becasue it's RON, MON, and R+M/2 are all almost identical. this makes C16 a very predictable and stable fuel at most conditions...you dont have to worry about octane decreasign as much as temp, pressure adn RPM increase

if you ahve a fuel that is say 117 RON, but only 110 MON, the fuel can be said to have the detontaion resistance of VP 110 under real world conditions(all VP fuels are rated by MON exclusively..they list RON..but just to demonstrate stability). but furthermore you can assume that the tougher things get in the engine the less protection you are going to get fom detontation.

Scott
</TD></TR></TABLE>



Scott knows his ish.

Enthalpy

what? me makes grammer miztakes? thats' Unpossible!

Cyphear

Awesome info Enthalpy ...ironic name ;p... Most gas stations use (R+M)/2 to figure octane. Not to hyjack the thread, but i think you'll find this useful. Any opinions on adding mixing toluene or propane or water injection instead of purchasing race gas?

Kataku2K3

I've never actually mixed Toluene with gas to increase the octane but from everything I've heard it works... The limiting factor is the octane rating you can acheive in doing so... Toluene has a R+M/2 of 114 octane (121 RON and 107 MON) and when mixed with 92 (the highest we can get here in Oregon at the pump) it will yield 98.6 R+M/2 in it's highest concentration of 30%... Like I've said in the past we've never really pushed our FI cars on pump, either they're on pump and we run 9lbs. or they're on VP110 and we run 20-30lbs... I think it would be interesting to see just how much of a difference it makes... Never have played with water/alcohol injection or propane tho...

Kwuaymaikrup

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kataku2K3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Of the higher boost cars (Duc, Brian, David, Will, etc.) we run/tune them on VP110 which MON is ~107... Ralph's Supra runs VPNOS which rated at 120.3 (MON) but that stuff is sorta spendy... After the Supra motor spun a bearing last year we had a bunch of NOS left over so we used it on Duc's motor but really we didn't notice any difference over the 110... </TD></TR></TABLE>

So going by this do any of you think I would be safe tuning 10:1 compression with 28psi using 110? I don't wan't to spend the cash on 114, 118 if I don't have to.

-Ryan

Kataku2K3

You could try it but watch your timing and read your plugs... If you see no signs of detonation, etc. then you're cool... If not then pull timing or upgrade the gas...

liam821

I posted alot of information about gas race, avgas, alcohol, and a few others.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=554119

Lots of good info...

liam

ekb18c

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kwuaymaikrup &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So going by this do any of you think I would be safe tuning 10:1 compression with 28psi using 110? I don't wan't to spend the cash on 114, 118 if I don't have to.

-Ryan</TD></TR></TABLE>

spend the extra cash.. Better safe then sorry.

Enthalpy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekb18c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

spend the extra cash.. Better safe then sorry.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

+1 agreed!! you put alot of time and $ into F.I. setups dont skimp on fuel.

Cyphear

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ekb18c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

spend the extra cash.. Better safe then sorry.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is not my moddo. Do some reasearch, i'm sure you'll find your answer somewhere. Only spend the extra cash if you need to. 28PSI is a lot on 10:1 though.

Suprdave

I would run C16 on 28PSI and 10:1...that should be in the 600whp zone depending on turbo size. Depends on turbo efficiency...the cooler the intake charge the better.

I have run Toulene a few years back in my buddies Conquest...we pushed 20PSI on the stock turbo with the ****. Couldn't even get close on pumpgas...like 14. The most you want to mix in is 30% and it works better on a hot day (anyone need me to explain this?) Its not that much cheaper than racegas tho...I think we were paying like $10\5 Gallons @ a paintshop. Can't remember...

Just buy racegas unless your an incredible cheapass. (DSM Guy, etc...)

Suprdave

alpha

I agree. My buddy here is putting down 604WHP with VPNOS (120).

Cyphear

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Suprdave &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just buy racegas unless your an incredible cheapass. (DSM Guy, etc...)</TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL. So true. Any opinions on using propane/water injection instead of race gas?

Kwuaymaikrup

Thanks guys I have a better idea of what I am looking for now that I read this.

-Ryan

Kwuaymaikrup

Back from the dead, but what does everyone think about Trick 114 fuel? I can get that at the pump for a pretty good price. How does it compare to Sunoco or say VP?