Again, most AEM EMS V2 users utilize the integrated control of the MAC boost solenoid, while many V1 users did not. That's why this discussion is here to show the options, not just utilize a general question. the discussion is all above.

As for a wideband, most people on this forum use them if for nothing else, to make themselves feel better that their tune was "correct", even though 90% of those with the gauge don't understand that if it instantly goes too lean, there's not much one can do except shut the car down immediately. Spark plug testing is a more traditional way of not seeing "lean ghosts" on a big display. With all the hub-bub, I'm surprised more NA guys aren't using wideband gauges and sensors more.

I myself am the minority. I haven't used a wideband in my car except for tuning days in which my own tuner had his; nothing has gone lean or wrong in 13 years on the same engine, and I don't see this changing, as I trust my tuner without hesitation. He tuned it, and if something were to be damaged from something associated with his use of fuel or timing, its his fault, not mine, so I don't concern myself with it. If I were my own tuner, I'd of course use one, but I'm not, so I don't.

It is up to you to decide whether or not to use one. Some like the fact that its one more "thing" to look at and give a sense of piece of mind. Others, may not for a variety of reasons.

 

I could've sworn this thread was more than 2 pages?

oh Mac, I found out why my 2871r had random excessive shaft play and sounded like it was full of gravel... and I'm pretty sure it's terminal

call me

 

I just ordered a Hallman ES MBC. Currently using Hondata/Hondata solenoid for boost control. My car is currently with my tuner. We will be doing back to back dyno's with them. I'm very interested to see how they compare.

I will post results and hopefully a comparison dyno.

 

really nothing to compare. An electronic solenoid is always going to respond a bit differently than the manual. In your case, you need to get with a LOW tech approach to ensure that the wastegate and turbocharger are doing their jobs independently. then you can bring all the bells and whistles into the equation.

 

Small fluctuations from a boost controller ecu whatever will throw off a tune if its in closed loop. Injectors fuel pump or fuel rail also.

What's better seeing your motor go lean and stop right away or not know at all and then hear your motor make some weird noises?

 

If it never "goes lean" in the first place because one has had the right prep, tuning methods, hardware and software, no need to worry..

For me personally, as hard as it may be to believe, its never happened in 16 years to me on 3 different turbo setups. Circuit racing 10 of those 16 years.. Again, its up the person who inquires. For most, its a piece of mind or to alleviate a fear that may or may not exist, due to suspect tuning methodology, hardware or software.

In all these years of experiencing racing, be it amateur or professional circuit racing, not once have I seen a driver worry about an AFR reading while driving the car, nor have the time to stare at the gauge. That's for the tuner to handle.

That's why its not a "YES" or "NO" type of question. The 5 wire wideband is needed for tuning and calibration for changes. nothing more or less. If "going lean" all of a sudden happens, that's due to other conditions outside the driver's control, and one has to go back to the drawing board to hash that out.

This is simply a difference of perspective from experience, not an argument, debate, or pissing contest of who's "right" or "wrong" in this instance.

 

We don't live in a perfect world.

If you have a track only car that gets driven maybe 5k miles a year yeah you don't need it. For a daily driver its a "tool" to have and aids in diagnosing problems faster than downloading a datalog.

I never look at mine. When things start acting up its there when I need it.

Most times people come here with problems first thing we ask is "what's the afr look like?"

So why should we suggest not needing one?

Its 200 bucks, add it in the budget and be done.

 

I had the reference line come off my fpr which I caught by glancing at my wideband...

 

And that's perfectly fine as your preference. But there was life before the interweb questionaires that have evolved over the last 10 years.

I suppose I look at it like my daily-driven, commuter-purpose factory turbocharged cars that I own which may have a 5 wire wideband in the car, but no gauge. (I think of Ford, Audi, Subaru, Toyota, etc) Why? because its the responsibility of the developer to ensure that the AFR itself is fine in all conditions, be it OEM or otherwise. Simply having the ability to "look at it" doesn't make it necessarily a better item to have, unless the tuner or tuning developer has a greater probability of making a critical error be it software, hardware, or tuning methodology. I have faith in my tuner for that, and I guess it worked for me... so again, its based upon personal experience and preference.

 

I have never heard of an instance where some ones motor blew and was able to just take it to the tuner and tell them to fix it because they know for a fact every other part of their setup is solid, sorry.


Never heard of a tuner take responsibility even if the motor blew on a dyno.



Further proving my point for cheap insurance.

 

So, because you've never heard of it, creates the inference of actual evidence? You must have a point before you can further prove your point. I'm just trying to get this mode of logic straight.. Lack of evidence due to segmented exposure = evidence. That's... well, interesting, if nothing else.

Sounds like you might have been around OMG (aka Rocket) a bit too much.

But its ok. I understand you don't like to agree to disagree... We're different. I didn't say one doesn't ever need one, I said that its more from a preferential standpoint, not an absolute one.

 

Mac, you get my PM?

 

Can I interject a noobie question on EBCs here? I'm going to anyways, if it gets skipped over, so be it.

I want to run an EBC with my Neptune so that I can switch between tunes for the street and track. What EBC would you suggest? Also, I want to go from somewhere around ~8 PSI up to 15 or so. What spring should I use in my Tial Wastegate? Does it even matter since I am using the EBC? Just lower than my minimum PSI or exactly the lowest PSI I want to run?

Never really planned to run different PSI between daily and the track. But if it's not too difficult, I wouldn't mind toning it down a little bit. Plus tunerview makes switching a breeze.

Thanks.

 

The question really revolves around your use and purpose, as well as preference.

If you want to integrate Neptune and Tunerview within the laptop system, from what I understand, its similar to both Hondata S300 and AEM EMS in which you would utilize a solenoid that will have a 5.4v signal. This means you have your choice of the MAC solenoids from the various companies, Chrysler & GM solenoids (with a couple of small adjustments)

"Switching" is a breeze either way with either an electronic or dual manual controller, so it doesn't matter whether you use a manual or EBC to perform what you need, as a competent tuner can use Neptune for both types.

But, if you do stay EBC, based upon what voltage the Neptune integrates with, it does matter which solenoid you use. (Be it MAC or Chrysler/GM). You just need to know the boost pressure change-over point (that your tuner will establish) between the two fuels. Its really that simple.

Now, as for the spring of the wastegate, and what size to use, this really depends upon what size turbo you have in relation to the size wastegate you plan to use. Simply stating that you "want to go from somewhere around ~8 PSI up to 15 or so" really depends upon the turbocharger you're using.

I've always found that even if the solenoid that you use has the capability to allow a broad range, doesn't mean its best to try and stress it to their limits. (As an example, attempting to use a 4psi spring in the wastegate itself to control 4psi up to 25psi because you want to use the Boost-By-Gear option.... It can be done, but really shouldn't as boost pressure stability doesn't hold as well because you're using such a high percentage duty cycle to try and maintain it.)

In your case Freemananana, I'd look to the keeping the spring reasonable like about a .4bar spring if using a TiAL or the 7psi spring if using a Turbosmart wastegate of similar size. But in order to be more accurate of where your best boost pressure range efficiencies are, we need to know (generally) what size turbocharger you're using.

I hope that clears it up a little.

 

When my car was on Neptune MANY years ago, I used one of these....


Worked well. It's essentially a manual boost controller that is triggered in stages via the ECU. Mind you, this is well before s300 and Neptune had added boost control to their packages.

I think I just aged myself. lol

 

Ive always wondered how those were triggered?

 

It's starting to. Just a quick rundown of the basics, to give you an idea:
Neptune RTP
Log manifold
Garret T3/T4 .57 trim 63 AR (Rated in the neighborhood of 400 HP tops)
Tial 38mm single wastegate

I believe it currently has the 'large yellow' spring, 0.7bar ~10PSI. Buying a new spring ($10) isn't a big deal. I was just going to get it tuned on wastegate pressure since I believe that will put me around 300wHP. I'd prefer to fall short than to overshoot it. It's just a simple set up and I drive the car to work daily.

Also, I wasn't planning on using multiple fuels. Just 93 octane but changing the boost pressure. The only reason I mentioned PSI was to give a numerical value to how big of a difference I would like the boost controller to make.

If this is something I can simply set up some other way, lay it on me. I don't really need boost by gear. I doubt the torque will come on abruptly enough to cause too many issues and I'm not pushing anywhere near the limits of FWD traction (from what I've read).

My only knowledge of boost controllers comes from reading about using internally gated turbos (small ones that come on factory cars) and upping the pressure via a boost controller.

 

this is interesting because I was wanting to tame my turbo gsr crx on street tires/drag radials. I am wanting to get a dual stage controller and run like 5-6 psi in 1st/2nd gear and ~15psi in 3rd and 4th. I was wondering if I can retard timing like 2* per psi for the first 5 or 6 psi and than somehow get the timing to where it should be by 15psi?

 

The ECU is going to be what allows that. The Honda ECU can't do it, to the best of my knowledge.

 

MSD 5stage timer..

 

Those things still get the job done to this day. you can't knock the simplicity and the function they offer. no fancy electronics to break, no complicated tuning, just turn ***** and set the trigger points.

everyone could take a page from the K.I.S.S. handbook lol

 

I have an AEM car and looking for a 4 port to drop 330 times... best one????

 

I dont know where you get this "man'd up " from

I **** around in gdd. Here im always helpful and uf i disagree with something or feel the need to call someone out about something i think they have no clue about then i do. It hurts feelings. Thats fine. Lets not sway other people into beleiving those people tho.

Any way

Road racing cant take advantage of boost by tps. Vss or gear at all? Do you use those features?

 

I dont buy the "no time to hook up a laptop" thing. It takes literally 30 seconds to change settings. You could easily set up a different preset for whatever track your on and go.

To each his own I guess...

PS what is this "gain" feature?

 

You can go into gear tables and pull timing on a gear by gear basis. At least I can in ectune.