hey i have jrsc with a 6 lb puley and crv crank pulley. i just ordered a endyn stepper pulley, spoon low temp thermo, and a kami header. will being at 9.5-11 lbs be harmfull on my strong 45,000 mile LS motor. i know it's not good for stock internals, but how bad would it be to have knowing that I'll be at the track occasionally and street "racing" at least once a weekend. should i jsut stay away from redline?

 

@6 lb of boost?
no i wouldnt worry
just do your 3k oil changed (yes, 3k) and keep an eye on the thermo and it should be just fine.

 

no no. 6 lbs pulley WITH crv crank pulley (2.5 more) and endyn stepper pulley (supposed to be 3 more, but we'll see)

so almost 10

 

and what do you plan on doing about fuel and timing management?

 

i have a jrsc fuel pump, venom injectors, and my timing is retarded 10 degrees. So, am i okay now?

 

venom injectors? why did you get those? retarded 10 degrees? daym... your low end is goin to be missin some torque!

 

ok. you didn't answer my question (no offense).

 

What size injectors are you running?

 

I also run the Endyne pulley - I get 9-10 psi. I am running RC310's and added a J & S Safeguard. Timing at 14 with a max of 6 deg retard at full boost. So far I have put on over 10k miles and done 40+ quarter mile runs........Still running strong.

 

I have right around 30K on my blower,and 58K on my 2000Si.Its been at 8 psi the past 10K or so.300+ times down the track.I have literally beat the hell out of my car,and its still ok.Just throw the kit on and TUNE it.Ive had nothing but good luck with the kit so far.

 

i've just ran 6psi for well over 2 years now... changed one belt and I got some weird noise right now, but by all means, my car runs great.

unsafe? I think not!

 

What 1/4 mile time are you guys running? I really wanted a JRSC for around town but think I'm leaning towards turbo now to try and get me to my 300hp goal. Was also thinking of JRSC @ 8lbs and something like 35-50 shot to give me around 250-275, I would imagine that stock internals on a 01 GSR could hold that, most drag III kits push around 275. This way my car would be really quick around town and I'd have that extra shot of nos to help out at the strip and such.

 

94 GSR at 9-10psi (Endyne Pulley) Kamikazi/3"Exhaust/AEMCAI - going to icebox. Type R Exhaust cam/J & S/RC310/rev limiter at 9k/Crower retainers/Type R lost motion+springs. - on 8" slicks full interior = best 12.81@108
Never dynoed - figure maybe 235-245 wheel HP.

 

how much should you be retarding your timing for the jackson racing charger set up? I remember reading it somewhere but cant find it now? Also I live in california and the highest pump octane we can get is only 91 but it says on the little instruction set that I printed out 92 octane or higher?? I know some of you guys with the charger set up are in california, so is 91 safe?? one last question from the curious newbie........is there a way to not retard the timing so much and still be safe? like that water injector or something?? sorry for the beginner questions.

 

mine is at 16 degrees (ie stock)

an LS can take that easily even on 91 octane, i assume. I got no problems with detonation.

 

Before the J & S Safeguard I had timing at 8deg with no audible detenation. After the J & S I tuned,tuned and tuned. Best I could do timing wise with CA 91 octane gas was 14deg and 6 deg retard at full boost. This was most timing I could get before the J & S starting kicking in.......
The J & S will still kick in sometimes on a hot day, hill, A/C etc..... but thats what it is there for.

Almost forgot - Never tried the water injection. Ive heard it does really help - but I just didn't want to deal it and making sure the water tank is alway full. Thats why I put the J & S on -


[Modified by BHSCGSR, 9:03 PM 3/13/2002]

 

My shop has install several JRSC and we run 10psi all the time on civic si's and the ls's have a stronger bottom end. Just remember importturbos rule of boosting retard timing 2 degrees for every 3psi of boost and raise fuel pressure 3psi for every pound of boost.

also very important never run a endyn pully without liquid injection or water injection.. very important you blower will last longer this way..

Also these setting may not be for anybody also this is typical for a mountainous high altitude area..

"Just dont stand there boost something"

 

If you have a JRSC run liquid injection on it and 10psi pulley upgrade your fuel with JR stuff and run a 45 shot of NOS dry at the very end of your intake. compensate your fuel and your timing for NOS and as long as your air is dense and not coming in hot your stock internals will handle this setup. I have done this setup 2 times and these poeple are still going after 30k brought one back in for internals his stock internals were comp tested even all four. The liquid injection made his pistons sparkle hell they looked brand new on top, valves were fine.

boost isn't the killer bad tuning is.
"Just don't stand there boost something"

 

so this J&S is a safe guard from detonation is this something extra that jackson racing offers? I looked at the water injection kit that JR sells and it says that it is not street legal....only time I would care is at smog time and I was thinking that I could just disconnect it then and put it out of the way where it wouldn't be obvious in order to pass the visual? as far as the water checking hassle, I thought that I could just put a liquid level sensor in the reservoir with a light attached to warn me when it is getting low?

 

http://www.importparts.com - do a search for safeguard - version 1

 

does anyone have a site that will go into depth on just what and how exactly this J&S box and the hondata box I keep reading about do?

I did a search already but didn't come up with any explanation of how and what exactly what these little boxes do


[Modified by FREAKA, 9:59 PM 3/13/2002]

 

Here are 2 write ups I found about the J & S......Hope it helps!
1)
The J & S SafeGuard is an electronic device that taps into a couple ECU - distributor wires. It also has a knock sensor that screws into the cylinder head...an un used bolt hole. The sensor can detect detonation that your ears would never hear, and when it does, it will retard the spark timing to eliminate the problem. It's unique because it's so accurate that you can set it to retard all cylinders or only the cylinder the detonation is coming from. It's sensitivity may be set as well...it will pull as much as 20 degrees of timing out in 2 degree increments with incredible speed, so no damage can occur. It also provides a slightly hotter spark...I still recomend an MSD-6AL, and the J & S also has a rev limiter in it. For an additional $150.00 you can get a small display "option" which splices into the O2 sensor and provides you with a continuous real time air / fuel ratio, as well as lighting red lights when it hears detonation...each light represents 2 degrees of timing it has removed.
For the price, we really can't afford not to incorporate the unit. While we do not see the need on a continuous basis, having a "fail safe" is smart....what if you get some shitty gas, it won't hurt your engine.....................T.O.O............
PS. As for improving performance, it doesn't really do much, but to allow the driver to see the air / fuel ratio, and the detonation, should some occur, gives me additional "peace of mind".
2)
The Safeguard from J&S Electronics is a compact unit that does some pretty amazing things. First and foremost, it is a superb knock-sensing timing retard. It is also a velvet touch rev limiter. Finally, it slightly increases the stock ignition's output. Before going into great detail about the unit, it is helpful to have a good understanding of the different types of detonation and a clear description of the terminology being used. First of all, detonation refers simply to the very rapid, uncontrolled explosion of the air-fuel mixture when it reaches the point of auto-ignition. The auto-ignition point is the temperature and pressure at which an air-fuel mixture will ignite without a spark. This point is determined primarily by the fuel being used. Higher octane fuel has a higher auto-ignition point than lower octane fuel. Knocking, or pinging is the sound we hear when the air-fuel mixture detonates. It goes without saying that if this rapid uncontrolled explosion occurs while the piston is still on its way up, cylinder pressure will skyrocket. This exceedingly high cylinder pressure is what blows head gaskets, holes pistons, cracks blocks and generally makes you have a really bad day.

Detonation can be caused by several different things. It can occur in a high-compression engine when the heat and pressure from compressing the air-fuel charge exceed the fuel's auto- ignition point even before the spark plug fires (pre-ignition). In this case timing is not the problem, fuel octane and compression must be addressed to overcome this problem. Detonation can also occur if there are "hot spots" in the combustion chamber caused by carbon build-up, too hot spark plugs, etc. In this scenario, the intake charge can be pre- ignited, or ignited in another area of the combustion chamber leading to two flame kernels, abnormally fast burning, and you guessed it, detonation. Fortunately for us, the most common cause of detonation in street Mustang's comes simply from too much timing advance. In this case the flame is ignited by the spark plug. Normally as the flame kernel expands, cylinder pressure climbs, but before it reaches the critical point, the piston is already on its way down, thus averting disaster. In the case where timing is too far advanced, pressure starts building too early and because the piston is still coming up, pressure builds quickly, reaching auto-ignition. Detonation occurs and cylinder pressure again goes through the roof.

Now that we have a working knowledge of detonation and what causes it, let's take a detailed look at the Safeguard. Like many OEM applications, the Safeguard utilizes a knock sensor. This device is essentially a high quality microphone that screws into the engine's block. The knock sensor is tuned to respond most strongly to those frequencies that are known to accompany detonation. The sensor sends its acoustic information to the Safeguard's control unit where this data is processed by the Safeguard's Digital Signal Processor (DSP). The DSP employs a proprietary knock sensing scheme that is impressively capable of discriminating between knocking (even knocking that is not audible to the driver) and normal engine noises (valvetrain, accessories, etc.).

As soon as detonation is detected, the Safeguard responds by retarding timing in 2, 4, or 6 degree increments depending upon the intensity of the detonation. It accomplishes this very quickly, before the troubled cylinder can fire again. As soon as detonation stops, the unit slowly advances the timing (2 degree increments) until detonation returns. The unit then pulls timing back out. This closed-loop control continues keeping the engine making maximum power, but preventing engine damage. It is important to note that the Safeguard is capable of retarding all cylinders or each cylinder individually. This way each cylinder is given all the advance it can safely use. The seat-of-the- pants difference between the two settings is quite surprising, indicating that by retarding only the detonating cylinders, the Safeguard is increasing the engine's power. According to J&S, this can amount to ten to twelve percent more torque depending upon your application.

The sensitivity of the unit is set by a **** on the unit. This setting will be different for different combinations, but is not dependent upon operating conditions. Once you set the sensitivity properly, you don't have to worry about it until you modify the engine again. The ideal sensitivity setting is sensitive enough to prevent the engine from knocking, but not so sensitive that the unit retards under normal driving conditions. In addition to the sensitivity setting, the unit has a built in connector that can be hooked to the TPS, MAF, MAP etc. This will prevent the unit from retarding on deceleration. This is a thoughtful feature that improves driveability.





As mentioned earlier, the Safeguard is also a rev-limiter. Setting the rev limit is quite simple with a volt meter. You merely monitor the voltage between a test point and ground while adjusting a **** on the unit. The RPM limit will be proportional to the voltage indicated on the meter (Ex. 6 volts = 6000 RPM). When this RPM is reached the unit will cut spark to every third cylinder. This results in a very smooth one-third drop in power. It is important to recognize that by dropping every third cylinder, fuel will not build up in any particular cylinder because the non-firing cylinders will be different on each engine rotation. This prevents excess fuel from washing the oil film off the cylinder walls, which could result in excessive cylinder bore and ring wear.

An excellent option available with the unit is the Dual Monitor. This attractive little device incorporates an air-fuel monitor that utilizes the stock left oxygen sensor. This saves you the expense and hassle of installing a new sensor and mounting bung. The unit does not interfere with the EEC's closed-loop operation. The air-fuel meter does nothing to alter fuel delivery, but it is an invaluable tuning tool, and it's also fun to watch. The Dual Monitor also incorporates a knock retard display. This shows the amount of retard required to eliminate detonation. When the Safeguard is set to retard all cylinders equally, you will see a single red light that indicates retard amount. When retarding cylinders individually, the display will light up one red light for each cylinder indicating the retard amount for each cylinder. This feature is useful in setting the sensitivity of the unit.





Installation is surprisingly simple and well within the grasp of the average Stang banger. This is due in part to J&S's excellent Ford-specific instructions. In this case the unit was installed on a daily driven, supercharged '91 Mustang GT Convertible that was plagued with a recurrent detonation problem. The unit went in without a hitch in just over four hours. A quick twist of a screwdriver and the rev limit was set at 6200 RPM. At first, the unit was set to retard all cylinder's equally. A few quick blasts up and down the road were all it took to dial in the sensitivity.

The effect of the unit is both noticeable and impressive. Instead of knocking under full load, the display simply lit up between two and four degrees of retard. Once we were confident that everything was working properly, the unit was set to retard all cylinders individually. Immediately, acceleration was noticeably improved, and knocking was still under full control. Finally, the initial timing was bumped up using Anderson Ford Motorsport's PMS (similar to Crane Interceptor II). Again, part throttle acceleration was notably improved and knocking was nowhere to be heard. The Dual Monitor now read six to ten degrees of retard.

As impressive as the Safeguard is and as confidence inspiring as it can be, it must be remembered that insufficient fuel octane, excessive boost, and too much compression can still destroy an engine no matter how much timing is backed out. On the other hand, when an engine is properly set up, ignition retard can be an exceedingly effective method for controlling detonation. It is in this facility as a timing retard that the J&S Safeguard has no equal.

In conclusion, the J&S Safeguard does what it claims and it does it well. The test car has run flawlessly with the unit under many months of hard street use. The best part of it is detonation is out of mind and out of sight. You just punch the gas and enjoy life. That's what its all about.

 

Hey FREAKA - one of the members here has one for sale.....J & S that is https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=144726

 

AAHH HAAA thanks BHSCGSR that sure answers quite a few questions.

now I get it sounds like quite a cool little black box....(blue).......

sounds like a good investment...will be getting one for sure when installing the super charger and other goodies this spring/summer

thanks for all the help

 

Glad I could help!