nonpoint986

1998 civic ex 5 speed. So it has the good easy wire harness.
I have a b20b vtec turbo.
b16a2 head
p28 hondata s300 with obd2a converter built on ecu
Street fire ignition, msd coil, msd tac adapter, oem distributor. 2 steps down plugs of that matters lol

Im getting fuel. Im just running a stock b20 map right now. I don't know if that's the problem, so i will try a p28 map instead. I wasn't getting any spark so according to the "troubleshooting guide" for the ignition box, order a specific tac adapter. Still no spark. im not getting ANY CEL codes either. Is there any kinda wire tricks or harness mods that i am missing?? im going to check my ground again.

Would it hurt it i took the wire from the ignition positive (when the key is on, the ignition box is on) wire and hot wire it to the battery just to see if i get spark. It doesnt seem like the box is getting any power. I dont remember how i have it wired up. When i get home i will update the thread with how i have the ignition box wired up.

sleepencivic

try a different ecu

nonpoint986

Its not the ecu. I have plugged it into a couple of different cars just to mess around with it so i dont think thats the problem lol

xtremescouts

Is there a big reason for running the msd setup at all? I have run many cars well into the 4-500 hp range on the stock ignition setup. I also know that the speedfactory white civic was(last time i heard) running a stock distributor and ignition setup and they are in the 800 to 900 hp range with no problems.

I say ditch the msd and go back to stock. Youll be happier and its more reliable and alot more simple.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I say keep the MSD box and have it sent in to MSD to have it diagnosed and repaired. Sounds like that's the issue.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

Sounds stupid but check all your grounds. Also does the car run on stock dizzy? If so then the box is no good if not then you have another issues you need to address before installing aftermarket parts

hoe do ou have the msd box wired? What donyou need a tach adapter for? Running an msd box should not effect tach operation and to shouldn't be inning the tach output to anything other than if your running an aftermarket tach

nonpoint986

Well, i unhooked the box, wired the new coil to the stock dizzy. Fired right up. Best part is I THREW NO CODES ON FIRST START UP!!! HELL YEAH IM EXITED!! There was no delay either, started as fast as you could turn the key, no cranking lol thanks for the assistance!

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

Don't continue to run that coil right off the stock ignitor. It requires a cd box otherwise both the coil and ignitor will burn out. If our looking to save money the summit racing digital cd ignition box is 155 and works great I'm running one with a crane ps92n coil

jetspeedz

if your looking to get rid of all ignition headaches do what i did and buy a M&W kit, Tony at T1 sells the entire kit wiring harness and all. Best part is no more ICM and issues with it burning up and weak spark. good luck

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

M&w iS great if you have deep pockets. The summit box with crane coil or msd coil willl far outperform stock systm and is vey affordable. Still uses the ignitor but reduces heat and load on them so they don't burn out

jetspeedz

Again if you want a problem free solution go with M&W, people spend thousands on a turbo kit and even more to build a motor, spending a little more for a peace of mind is worth the price. Why cheap on on something that important. I had the MSD 6a with SS coil and burned up 3 ICM's, one on the dyno. They help take load off the ICM but heat and extra load of the turbo at high revs will kill the ICM. When running boost the motor will always run warmer and that heat transfers right to the head and the dizzy. The weak point is the ICM which is a nightmare. Do yourself a favor and save a little more money and get the M&W.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I see this debates going to go on for a while. Here's how it works.

If you can afford it. M&W 10
If you cannot afford it . Mallory/summit box with external coil.

2k.civic.si

Let the spoon feeding begin

http://apps.msdignition.com/1troub1.htm

Checking The MSD Ignition For Spark
The following test will determine if your MSD is producing a spark.


White Wire Trigger:
If you are using the White wire (points or electronic amplifier) of the MSD to trigger the ignition, follow these steps.

1. Make sure the ignition switch is in the Off position.

2. Remove the coil wire from the distributor cap and position the terminal so it is approximately 1/2" from a good ground.

3. Disconnect the MSD White wire from the distributor points or the ignition amplifier.

4. Turn the ignition to the On position. DO NOT CRANK THE ENGINE.

5. Tap the White wire to ground several times. Each time the wire is pulled away from ground a spark should jump from the coil wire to ground. If spark is present, the ignition is working properly.


If there is no spark:

A. Inspect all of the wiring.

B. Substitute another coil and test again. If there is now spark, the coil is at fault.

C. If there is still no spark, check to make sure there is 12 volts on the small Red wire from the MSD when the key is in the On position. If 12 volts are not present, find another 12 volt source and repeat the test.

D. After inspecting the test procedures and inspecting all of the wiring, there is still no spark, the Ignition is at fault. See the Warranty and Service Page for Information.

let me know after you tested the box...then i have another set of instructions for ya

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

Jetspeed the chepo mad boxes are garbage for an import hence why you kept burning up ignitors. The Mallory/summit box is alot better it's a digital capacitiv discharge box. I'm sure everryone would love to run an m&w but it's alot of coin my fiend

jetspeedz

Actually they are no different other then one is digital vs analog so unless you have some data to prove the Cap they use are some magical caps that make them better I would be shocked. If you look inside and open them up they are in simple terms capacitors. Not sure how long you have been doing this but back in the day MSD was all that was really around and their stuff was on many drag cars, their 6A box has not changed in design, can't speak for where the circuitry components come from.

Again if you want a ignition free problem run M&W. I find it amazing you spend so much on a turbo kit and build your motor yet you are too cheap to get a problem free ignition system. Why not run stock fuel pump too while your at it???


Here is some more food for thought

Digital doesn't mean anything unless you are programming.
The digital timing signal still has to go through the same switching transistors as the analog signal, and since you aren't trying to do any logic programming, it's not an issue at all.

You might also want to know, what Mallory calls 'Digital' is often 'Square Wave' switching.
It's not 'Digital' at all, but since they have a good advertising, and people are gullible and believe anything in shiny print,
I'm sure no one will take the time to learn the difference!

You might also consider that in an over rich, street driven engine that is probably tired, the difference between digital and analog is absolutely MOOT!

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

I agree with what our saying. But Ive been doing his for some time now and I know for a fact that msd boxes are complete junk plain and simple unless your runniging a big dollar box. The analog 6 series are crap and there is no argument to that I think you will agree. Has nothing to donwith sales pith by Mallory that I bought the summit box it was. From very trustworthy information by a professional who knows here stuff that led me in that direction and after reasearch I went with the summit box and got more than what I was looking for wihout killing ignitors. So again like I said if ou dot have deep pockets here are other altenatives that are reliable than the m&w. Everyone would like to afford one but they can't. Plenty of people running oem ignition on 700hp setups so with that being said the setup I've chosen to go with releaves the load on the ignitor and amps up spark jut fine for a little over 200 bucks

sorry for typos I'm on my iPhone

I guess running a walbro 255 intank is being cheap too right? I should be running an aeromotive a1000 or a Weldon on my street car cause there expensive they must be better for the average setup? It's relative o what can be afforded and what is being done with the car
furthermore just because someone doesn't spend top dollar on a part doesn't make then cheap. Were not talking about china eBay parts here. If running he setup I have is being a cheap *** what does that make oem users? Also if you really wantto gt technical why cheap out and run an oem ecu based management when you could run the best top dollar motec??? Because it's what's affordable to the general public looking to not be completely cheap asses with freeware but don't have the motec deep pockets right?

jetspeedz

I did not see any facts to backup your claim, and i provided you with technical data about what Mallory/Summit claim to be a Digital unit and what it really is! Also you did not provided any info about why YOU believe the Digital box is better then a Analog?

If you have been doing this a long as you claim you would know what was popular back in the 90's and worked very well. In fact Myles (Rev Hard) ran MSD on his cars back when it was just Rev Hard vs Drag. No need to steer away from the issue at hand, we are talking about ignition not ECU's. If you have ever tuned a Motec Ecu you will know other then price being the issue getting familiar with the software or finding a tuner that can tune a M400 or better is difficult and S300 has been proven for 8sec 1/4 ET's.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

Well we weren't talking about fuel pumps either but way to make it about that I was simply stating your theory that expensive is better and the only way to go when your self stated s300 is running in some pretty fast cars so top of the line top dollar isn't always needed. That's all I was trying to say. I've had bad luck with mad cheapo boxes and good luck wih their expensive stuff and good luck with my summit box digital or analog I'm not harping on that issue you are I'm just stating real world experience with certain equipment. Didn't day the 6 won't work but there crap in comparison to aloof other suff on the market. I personally never liked msd stuff so that's my stand on it

o the op sorry for the thred Jack this has turned into. You can make your choice accoding to what's affordable to you. Good luck with the setup

2k.civic.si

i have a way to completely remove the ignitor as long as your running an aftermarket system like the msd sci or something similar.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

The resistor trick?

jetspeedz

It is pretty clear you have no clue what you are talking about other then what you read on the forums. You make claims about a product without any facts to back it up. You have no understanding of how a CDI box works other then whats printed for the masses to read. This conversation is clearly not going anywhere since your lack to technical knowledge is pretty evident. When you take the time to learn the difference between digital and analog CDI boxes come back and join the conversation.

To the OP, if you want to avoid the headaches of burned up ICM's get a unit that bypasses it, simple as that, otherwise you can get MSD, Mallory, Summit and they will all do the same thing.

good luck

2k.civic.si

resistor trick? umm no it takes a bit more then a resistor to completely remove the ignitor from the ignition system and till have everything work.

ShanghaiOC

I have to agree. The MSDs work, but they aren't as good as other products on the market. I'd love a M&W but I'm not that rich. I've had good luck in the past & so have my friends with the Mallory/summit box as well. This is just from personal experience.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

What is involved in removing the ignitor ? I'd like to remove mine completely and run my current ignition setup and have a failure free system for less than an m&w

jetspeedz

I take it you ran this setup with 1k resister between ecm and msd on white wire