HG problem, I'm stumped
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HG problem, I'm stumped
Little background: Last year I cracked a sleeve after 5 years of abuse. Stock sleeve 9.5:1 .0035 p2w, ls/vtec, 3076r, 16* timing @18psi on 93 pump. Rebuilt the motor to pretty much the same specs but went with a 6262 @ 16psi, 16*, on 93 pump, 9:1 pistons and .0045 p2w instead.
I put 500 miles on the new setup and the copper sprayed cometic .030 HG let go (about an inch wide leak into the coolant system off the #4 cyl).
Put it back together last week with a stock ls HG with copper spray and it let go on 3 cylinders after not even 10 miles. So ordered new GE headstuds since the previous ones had been reused a few times.
Put it back together this week with the new studs and a dry stock ls HG and it popped, in less than 10 miles... again. This time on 2 cylinders.
I've got another cometic on the way but I'm curious if anyone has any ideas cause this is getting ridiculous. Everything is true/flat, can't fit a .002 feeler under anywhere on the head or block. Torque wrench is calibrated and I followed GE's torque steps
used honda's sequence:
I 9 5 1 3 7
E 8 4 2 6 10
Heealllpp! ha
I put 500 miles on the new setup and the copper sprayed cometic .030 HG let go (about an inch wide leak into the coolant system off the #4 cyl).
Put it back together last week with a stock ls HG with copper spray and it let go on 3 cylinders after not even 10 miles. So ordered new GE headstuds since the previous ones had been reused a few times.
Put it back together this week with the new studs and a dry stock ls HG and it popped, in less than 10 miles... again. This time on 2 cylinders.
I've got another cometic on the way but I'm curious if anyone has any ideas cause this is getting ridiculous. Everything is true/flat, can't fit a .002 feeler under anywhere on the head or block. Torque wrench is calibrated and I followed GE's torque steps
used honda's sequence:
I 9 5 1 3 7
E 8 4 2 6 10
Heealllpp! ha
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Re: HG problem, I'm stumped
My straight edge isn't "certified" but it's true. I made it on my bridgeport a while back and all surfaces were square
Non chlorinated brake-clean and a clean rag. The new short block was decked and the head was milled at one point in the old build and then before the new build. I'm not sure exactally how much was taken off of both in total but both cams had to be advanced a degree to compensate for the amount of material that was removed
I did install the last HG dry and it still blew out just as quickly.
I feel like it's something I'm doing but I've done countless head gaskets without any issues until these past couple weeks. I thought maybe it was something in the tune but there is no sign of detonation anywhere and it drives/pulls smooth
Maybe bore size of the gasket? 81mm bore but with the extra that was taken out for my greater p2w maybe I should try an 81.5mm gasket?
I did install the last HG dry and it still blew out just as quickly.
I feel like it's something I'm doing but I've done countless head gaskets without any issues until these past couple weeks. I thought maybe it was something in the tune but there is no sign of detonation anywhere and it drives/pulls smooth
Maybe bore size of the gasket? 81mm bore but with the extra that was taken out for my greater p2w maybe I should try an 81.5mm gasket?
Last edited by b16hybridsol; 10-05-2012 at 09:55 PM.
#6
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Re: HG problem, I'm stumped
Where exactly is the head gasket failing ? If you look at it or the block/head surfaces close enough you should be able to see.... Post pictures up if possible...
#7
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Re: HG problem, I'm stumped
Clearly it's not "true" if you are having these problems. Also, if you use an OEM gasket, that is the absolute best you can get. They are also already set up for 0.020" over (0.5mm)... Are you checking across the cylinders on at LEAST a 7 point axis? I also don't understand why you automaticly think 16* of timing is safe.
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Re: HG problem, I'm stumped
If the Head gasket is failing in different places. 1. Have you checked to make sure you torque wrench is right and I would try a thicker gasket. GL
#9
DO IT ON ALL FOURS
Re: HG problem, I'm stumped
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Re: HG problem, I'm stumped
Since the block has previously been milled and you don't know by how much, did you verify that the dowel pins aren't too long causing the held to be slightly lifted?
#11
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Re: HG problem, I'm stumped
Haha, you guys are full of jokes today! He would be having a LOT more problems than what he is stating... also, do you actually know where the dowels are located in reference to his problem? Interesting theory though...
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Re: HG problem, I'm stumped
As far as Cometic vs. factory HG goes..... I am going to say I prefer Cometic only because I have had less HGs pop with them than honda gaskets or other non Cometic brands.
#13
DO IT ON ALL FOURS
Re: HG problem, I'm stumped
Same here. I started using copper spray because everyone said it was the thing to do. I went through HGs like it they were supposed to be changed like your oil. I stopped using the spray and no issues.
As far as Cometic vs. factory HG goes..... I am going to say I prefer Cometic only because I have had less HGs pop with them than honda gaskets or other non Cometic brands.
As far as Cometic vs. factory HG goes..... I am going to say I prefer Cometic only because I have had less HGs pop with them than honda gaskets or other non Cometic brands.
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Re: HG problem, I'm stumped
LS/VTEC needs VTEC head gasket!!!! Can you show us the old gasket so the whitness marks can been seen where the gasket failed?
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Re: HG problem, I'm stumped
Clearly it's not "true" if you are having these problems. Also, if you use an OEM gasket, that is the absolute best you can get. They are also already set up for 0.020" over (0.5mm)... Are you checking across the cylinders on at LEAST a 7 point axis? I also don't understand why you automaticly think 16* of timing is safe.
The timing is just another reference as to what's going on with the setup as I had heard of people popping HGs on shitty tunes. I dyno tuned it on the 3076, power dropped off after 17* so I went with 16*. Then recently just cleaned up that tune on the street and lowered the timing a bit more up top for the 6262.
The dowel pins have plenty of room before they would bottom out in either the head or block.
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Re: HG problem, I'm stumped
For those interested: I dropped the head off at my normal machinists today. He wasn't content with the RA of the head because a fly-cutter was used to mill it previously. He also said the dowel pins could have been causing the head to not seat properly as one wasn't perfectly square. So new dowels are on the way and it should be good to go again this weekend
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Re: HG problem, I'm stumped
Actually you have that wrong. You get the HG for the Block not the Head. He should use a OEM LS headgasket. Or a cometic for the Ls/Vtec. Do not get a thicker gasket
Sounds like the machinist found your problem. Should be good to go now
Sounds like the machinist found your problem. Should be good to go now
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