help diagnos the problem.
07-13-2002, 09:22 PM
#1
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help diagnos the problem.
CAR:
b20vtec integra
stock B20 block, stock B16a head
OBD 1 gsr ECU
Revhard turbo kit. 6.5psi
310cc injectors w/ 12:1 FMU
walbro fuel pump that comes with JRSC kit.
Vafv, settings are at zero, except at idle
MSD ignition, not sure what kind.
Symtoms:
-Car smokes at idle, smokes sometimes at WOT as well.
-fuel pressure is at 70psi at idle. (We could not figure out why the fuel pressure is so high. we bolted on an AEM FPR to lower it. but could only get it down to 55psi on the FPR's lowest setting.)
-did a compression test. rings seem to be fine, we got 180's accross the cylinders. we suspect the smoke could be from bad valve seals. still unsure.
-I suspected the car of detonating. I drove it and from about 6500-7500 the car felt like it was studdering. but it still made good power. and ive never really heard detonation, so trying to hear it over an open wastegate is gonna be tough.
Now the car has a serious problem. About 6k RPM's it starts to fall off in power. the RPM's begin to move slower and slower as they go up. at about 7600 its like they hit a rev limiter. I still cant hear detonation from the car but im assuming its there.
what would cause the fuel pressure to be so high at idle? we were thinking the JRSC intank could be the culprit. but we havent found a stock one to swap out with it.
the car is definitly burning oil. could the oil in the cylinders lead to extra hot cylinder temps and possibly cause detonation? or the loss in power at high RPM's?
what do u guys think?
b20vtec integra
stock B20 block, stock B16a head
OBD 1 gsr ECU
Revhard turbo kit. 6.5psi
310cc injectors w/ 12:1 FMU
walbro fuel pump that comes with JRSC kit.
Vafv, settings are at zero, except at idle
MSD ignition, not sure what kind.
Symtoms:
-Car smokes at idle, smokes sometimes at WOT as well.
-fuel pressure is at 70psi at idle. (We could not figure out why the fuel pressure is so high. we bolted on an AEM FPR to lower it. but could only get it down to 55psi on the FPR's lowest setting.)
-did a compression test. rings seem to be fine, we got 180's accross the cylinders. we suspect the smoke could be from bad valve seals. still unsure.
-I suspected the car of detonating. I drove it and from about 6500-7500 the car felt like it was studdering. but it still made good power. and ive never really heard detonation, so trying to hear it over an open wastegate is gonna be tough.
Now the car has a serious problem. About 6k RPM's it starts to fall off in power. the RPM's begin to move slower and slower as they go up. at about 7600 its like they hit a rev limiter. I still cant hear detonation from the car but im assuming its there.
what would cause the fuel pressure to be so high at idle? we were thinking the JRSC intank could be the culprit. but we havent found a stock one to swap out with it.
the car is definitly burning oil. could the oil in the cylinders lead to extra hot cylinder temps and possibly cause detonation? or the loss in power at high RPM's?
what do u guys think?
07-13-2002, 10:10 PM
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Re: help diagnos the problem. (CovertFI)
no, ive been under the impression its around 9.4:1
the smoke is usually grey. sometimes black, never seen white.
[Modified by DIRep972, 7:11 AM 7/14/2002]
the smoke is usually grey. sometimes black, never seen white.
[Modified by DIRep972, 7:11 AM 7/14/2002]
07-13-2002, 10:13 PM
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Re: help diagnos the problem. (DIRep972)
Which B20 is it? B20B? B20Z? If its a B20Z with a B16 head, it's making around 10.2:1 compresion. If its the USDM B20B its making around 9.4:1
Is there smoke coming out from the valve breather? Sounds like it might be valve oil seals. What kind of spark plugs is he using?
[Modified by BG Boost, 7:15 AM 7/14/2002]
Is there smoke coming out from the valve breather? Sounds like it might be valve oil seals. What kind of spark plugs is he using?
[Modified by BG Boost, 7:15 AM 7/14/2002]
07-14-2002, 06:44 AM
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Re: help diagnos the problem. (BG Boost)
same thing is happening to me around 7k its like it hits a rev limiter just stutters. Artturbo said it might be the FMU disk. Might need to change it to 8:1 or 6:1. I have a Vafc so I am tuning some fuel out around 7k and that seems to be working. Let me know what you did to stop it. I did not have smoke though.
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07-14-2002, 08:52 PM
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Re: help diagnos the problem. (DIRep972)
OK LET ME REPHRASE THE QUESTION!
what would cause a car to burn oil if the rings are still good?
and.
if there is enough fuel, proper timing, and good enough gas what else could cause detonation?
what would cause a car to burn oil if the rings are still good?
and.
if there is enough fuel, proper timing, and good enough gas what else could cause detonation?
07-14-2002, 09:29 PM
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Re: help diagnos the problem. (CDooMe2)
hmm. dumb question, but did you check the oil return line to make sure its not backed up or anything?
07-14-2002, 09:41 PM
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Re: help diagnos the problem. (DIRep972)
no problem, my car smokes sometimes when it idles for a few minutes but if i rev it up it stops smoking, im thinkin the oil gets backed up in the return line or something....i think my return line is a little too long and some of it hangs slightly lower than the point of entry on the oil pan....so i was thinkin at idle, since the oil pick up isnt "sucking" up a bunch of oil, the return line gets full of oil....ahh im talkin out my ***, but anyways....i cant figure out why my car smokes at idle sometimes, like if i let it sit for like 10 or 15 seconds its fine, if i let it set for like a minute or two, it will smoke, very lightly, sometimes it wont do it for a long long time.....arhh who knows...let me know if you figure it out
07-14-2002, 09:46 PM
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Re: help diagnos the problem. (DIRep972)
too much fuel can cause your car to fall on its face. grey/black smoke is ususally an indicator of too much fuel. white smoke is associated with oil and coolant too. try leaning out the vafc maybe?
07-14-2002, 09:51 PM
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Re: help diagnos the problem. (DIRep972)
what would cause a car to burn oil if the rings are still good?
so to answer your question, using my example, YES, it can cause a burning oil, if the rings wasn't working properly, not due to bad rings...
but again, if the case was like I explained above....the compression test would have been off...
so compression is good, so obviously the rings is fine, headgasket is fine, the cylinders is holding up all pressure....which is the opposite of a condition where oil burning in the combustion chamber..
and if I am not mistaken, if compression is fine the the valves and seals suppose to be good ?
damn, I am stumbled !!!..is this Iggy's ?
his car misses me, that's all...
sorry, wasn;t much of a help...I'll think it over tonight
07-14-2002, 09:54 PM
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Re: help diagnos the problem. (Flamenco-NA)
just a suggestion, put the stock injectors back in...just to see if it is dumping too much fuel with the 310's and VAFC at zero setting...
07-14-2002, 10:06 PM
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Re: help diagnos the problem. (Flamenco-NA)
just a suggestion, put the stock injectors back in...just to see if it is dumping too much fuel with the 310's and VAFC at zero setting...
and yep, its iggys car. dont ask why im posting for him.
07-14-2002, 10:10 PM
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Re: help diagnos the problem. (DIRep972)
and yep, its iggys car. dont ask why im posting for him.
what happen to your stock fuel pump ?
I can send him mine for the mean time...
07-14-2002, 10:20 PM
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Re: help diagnos the problem. (Flamenco-NA)
hehe cause i know that if i dont post it, we will never find the problem. 
and i dont know where my stock pump is. i had it, but now i dont.
i dont think the turbo is cooked. but we can check that as well.
and i dont know where my stock pump is. i had it, but now i dont.
i dont think the turbo is cooked. but we can check that as well.
07-14-2002, 10:52 PM
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Re: help diagnos the problem. (DIRep972)
Diagnosis:
My best guess tells me if the rings/compression is good, then it's a bad FMU/FMU disc. What leads me to this is that it's too rich at idle, and you cannot lower it any further. Also, a 12:1 disc is too high for 310's.
Cure: Get Honda/standalone, solves this problem all the time
or
Get a 8:1 disc and some dyno time to cure the problem.
[Modified by VaporTrail, 2:54 AM 7/15/2002]
My best guess tells me if the rings/compression is good, then it's a bad FMU/FMU disc. What leads me to this is that it's too rich at idle, and you cannot lower it any further. Also, a 12:1 disc is too high for 310's.
Cure: Get Honda/standalone, solves this problem all the time
or
Get a 8:1 disc and some dyno time to cure the problem.
[Modified by VaporTrail, 2:54 AM 7/15/2002]
07-14-2002, 11:27 PM
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Re: help diagnos the problem. (VaporTrail)
ok, so most people think its fuel. im wondering what would have gone wrong to cause the car to start acting up now. because it ran fine for a month or so, we havnt changed anything, and now its acting up.
07-15-2002, 10:36 AM
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Re: help diagnos the problem. (VaporTrail)
had it dyno tuned yet? Check the plugs for fouling?
the plugs did foul last week. The car was running good, it was running 8.9 @ 82mph on a hot hot day. but then the day after that is when all the problems started to occur. a vacum line came undone from the map sensor(map sensor is mounted on the firewall, dont ask) and the diaphram on the fuel pressure regulator busted so the car flooded with ALOT of fuel. Im pretty sure that caused the plugs to foul, not regular driving.
but we will check the plugs as well. i think he coming over today so hopefully well get to try some stuff out.
[Modified by DIRep972, 7:38 PM 7/15/2002]
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