<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by accordexchange &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

hey friend

stinker504, liam is right. i have a 94 honda accord ex auto w/ a drag 4 turbo kit-stock motor except the skunk2 cam gear. hondata said i had to use their stage 2b system and a p28 auto ecu in order to work-which i have. the p28 ecu was actually a manual but hondata modified it to be an auto. i actually used to run the vafc hack-thanks to liam. i've been boosting 10 psi daily with no problems-just some leaks to take care of. i do, however, need to upgrade/rebuild the auto tranny (just like upgrading a manual tranny when the clutch starts slipping and cannot put the power to the ground.)

</TD></TR></TABLE>

THANK YOU!!! How much did the final hondata system finally cost you? After the level 10 build up I'm deff. going for higher boost.

 

Since with this vafc alternative the ecu stays in closed loop are the O2s still needed on my jdm b16 or can I get rid of them?

Great work btw have a on me

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stinker504 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

THANK YOU!!! How much did the final hondata system finally cost you?</TD></TR></TABLE>

no problem-i forget the exact price of the total hondata system. i think the 2b and ecu came out to around $700-something. talk to kyle @ ks-motorsports. excellent prices and customer service for hondata.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by model x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Since with this vafc alternative the ecu stays in closed loop are the O2s still needed on my jdm b16 or can I get rid of them?

Great work btw have a on me</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good question, from what I understand of it you still go into closed loop when you are at partial throttle, but when you get on it you go into open loop and use the VAFC's fuel corrections. Can someone back me up or correct me..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beta13 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Good question, from what I understand of it you still go into closed loop when you are at partial throttle, but when you get on it you go into open loop and use the VAFC's fuel corrections. Can someone back me up or correct me..</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sooo has anyone been thinking about this?
Are you almost ready to reply?

I'd really like to get rid of the two O2 sensors on my wagon.

 

you need to keep your o2's or your computer will go into limp mode. the primary is the most important. the second one is not as important. on obd2 the ecu will try to keep it in the 14 range of a/f below 50% throttle and go into rich tables at 50% throttle and above. your corrections on your hi throttle will need to compensate for this and on mine the settings are actually more corrected than lo throttle because they are pulsing the injectors in the rich tables. on the lo throttle i corrected to make the equivalent of 240cc inj (-47 and -46). just be careful at lo throttle boosting, but i have done that a lot and the a/f stays in the 14 range and hasn't detonated yet. i just try not to push it too much at lo throttle and high boost.

good luck.

 

btw i just got done today w/b tuning on the street for 9psi. i couldn't get it any leaner than 10.5-11.5...quite a bit on the rich side. seems very fast though.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by scttydb411 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you need to keep your o2's or your computer will go into limp mode. the primary is the most important. the second one is not as important. on obd2 the ecu will try to keep it in the 14 range of a/f below 50% throttle and go into rich tables at 50% throttle and above. your corrections on your hi throttle will need to compensate for this and on mine the settings are actually more corrected than lo throttle because they are pulsing the injectors in the rich tables. on the lo throttle i corrected to make the equivalent of 240cc inj (-47 and -46). just be careful at lo throttle boosting, but i have done that a lot and the a/f stays in the 14 range and hasn't detonated yet. i just try not to push it too much at lo throttle and high boost.

good luck.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I didn't think the pre OBD ecus had limp mode?

 

can the MSD digital retard be used with this? I have it on my car now and when i hit the nitrous, it automatically retards the timing to a pre set degree. If so how will this be wired up, its hooked up to the positive side of the nitrous slnd now.
BTW Best thread ever, just read the whole thing and wow! saves lots of money.

 

I noticed my last reply, of several weeks ago, was edited from this thread. Yet, all of liam's technical errors have not. I noticed his erroneous posts have been (mostly) edited/removed, but...

Show me a Honda 2 bar MAP, or even a Honda 1.8 bar MAP (the correct answer) that can read all 1.8 bar aka return all 5 volts, or tell me why chipping OBD1 for a MAPhack is more expensive than OBD0 (or why you have to worry with MAPhack with Ghettodyne and Uberdata running about), or tell me again why the AFC hack doesn't curve timing so it's very advanced in the low boost area?

Way to go, stunnas. This is a simple, effective, reliable form of engine management. The reason you hear so many horror stories about AFC hacks blowing **** up is due to the crap you get fed as tech about it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Way to go, stunnas. This is a simple, effective, reliable form of engine management. The reason you hear so many horror stories about AFC hacks blowing **** up is due to the crap you get fed as tech about it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ha! You don't say?
see sig...

 

damn great thread.... still soooo many questions about afc hack. only read up to the 2nd page and will keep reading .. just wanted to bump this to the top!

 

My only worry is what J. Davis was talking about - timing advance in part-throttle low-rpm mild-boost duties. I don't want to have to drive and avoid a particular portion of the maps

 

i worry about closed loop, part throttle boost. i know it interpolates, but how safely?

 

Yeah this is a good thread. I asked this question before but ill ask again.

Will wideband tuning take out the part throttle problems people on the hack experience?

Also I know quite a few people avoid the timing issue by retarding their timing a couple degrees at idle.

 

From what I inferred of J. Davis' statements, the timing problems couldn't be solved by a few simple degrees of timing retard... ie it waaaay advanced the timing beyond what it should be, 10+ degrees over, for example. Dropping down to 13 degrees base wouldn't solve that much advance!

J.Davis, where are you We need clarification, preferably in small simple words my small brain can comprehend... I can't read/understand your maps that you posted either

 

Alright, well in the case, if you have timing probs couldn't you run the MSD 6 BTM with the hack and have good results? That way fuel AND TIMING problems should be cured...correct?

It seems with these two things you have everything you need.

http://www.geocities.com/Motor....html

 

I don't think so... you don't want to retard per pound of boost, as from what I gather the AFC hack handles full-boost at or above VTEC engagement just fine, but it's the lower boost #s that are the issue I don't really know though! J.Davis... come on... teach us

 

Have you read this thread...https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=602876.

 

the btm will help a lot, the problem is with all the money spent you coulda just got hondata.

in very basic terms, normally your timing would go something like
12, 26, 28, 21, 25 across the board (pr4). with the afc hack your timing now goes
16, 25, 33, 29, 39. you can see the differences of 9-14* up top.

 

I see the problem. Wow.

Alright, well then for the added advancement in timing, if I were to put in a higher octane gas (which burns slower) and add colder spark plugs and a couple degrees retardation could this help the problems with the advancement in timing?

It's not really a remedy to stop it, but could this be a remedy to prevent it from hurting the engine.....?

there's a write up on colder plugs which explain a lot if anyone's interested. (10th link down)
http://www.ngk.com/faqmain.asp

On the flip side this might actally hurt the low end performance wouldn't it? But who uses that anyways


Modified by racinskittle at 7:01 AM 9/19/2003

 

hey i got a problem with my current set-up, my car dies when i slow down 1000-2000 rpms. it just shuts off. so one of my techs. took my 1000-1500 rpm fuel settings from -35% to -18% and -25% and it doesnt do it anymore, but aint i runnin mad rich now?

but........now my car every now and then seems to flood after i drive it, turn off the car and try to start it again, it would crank and not start sounding like fuel's flooding.

i'm runnin 440cc cpr injectors on a b16a.

also where should i have my throttle settings at?

thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by racinskittle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I see the problem. Wow.

Alright, well then for the added advancement in timing, if I were to put in a higher octane gas (which burns slower) and add colder spark plugs and a couple degrees retardation could this help the problems with the advancement in timing?

It's not really a remedy to stop it, but could this be a remedy to prevent it from hurting the engine.....?

there's a write up on colder plugs which explain a lot if anyone's interested. (10th link down)
http://www.ngk.com/faqmain.asp

On the flip side this might actally hurt the low end performance wouldn't it? But who uses that anyways </TD></TR></TABLE>

youre not already running the highest octane gas and colder plugs?
i dunno about just running colder plugs.. theyll foul. so i guess the chamber will be cooler but then thats the same as just running richer?

retarding helps.. but how much until its just not worth it.. 2? 5? retarding vs turning down the boost? headaches!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by XDEep &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

youre not already running the highest octane gas and colder plugs?
i dunno about just running colder plugs.. theyll foul. so i guess the chamber will be cooler but then thats the same as just running richer?

retarding helps.. but how much until its just not worth it.. 2? 5? retarding vs turning down the boost? headaches!
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Im not boosted yet Sooo no damage done

 

Quote, originally posted by liam821 »
hehe thanks

As for the 3bar map sensor mod. Ive heard it can work but when your pushing your motor that hard, and maybe you just done care, but having a good fuel system becomes ever more important. Personally i feel anything past 10psi and you should really start thinking about good fuel management. Its too easy to blow something up with bad tuning..and 10psi+ its just that much worse.

liam


With this 3 bar sensor mod - How much boost do u think an H22A vtec could run using 450cc injector and the VAFC hack. How much boost can you run before the ecu starts to see boost? I know reliablity would be an issue but it would be good to know the true limits of the hack in theory. I would be using the MSD BTM.


If you can also answer this - What happens in theory when you try to run more than 11psi with the stock map sensor. Would it throw a CEL? Would the ECU still see 11psi and start to run lean? Let me know.

Thanks.