When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Yeah I am uncertain how fast it would deteriorate the lines honestly but it does scare me a little. I haven't brought it up to my tuner yet but I am planning to tomorrow. I just don't have the funds to do a new set of lines in a weeks time. And I have already paid for the scheduled tuning time tomorrow. I may not run the e85 unless he is extremely confident that just tuning with it will not ruin the lines. Regardless after Christmas I will be buying new line, even if I have to stay strictly 93 until then.
You will be just fine short term running e85 with your current fuel lines. I Know people who have ran e85 on completely stock fuel lines for years without issues. I would not stress about it short term especially if you plan to upgrade to proper e85 compatible lines soon. Hopefully your tune goes smoothly and you actually get a chance to get a full flex fuel tune done. Good luck man!
You will be just fine short term running e85 with your current fuel lines. I Know people who have ran e85 on completely stock fuel lines for years without issues. I would not stress about it short term especially if you plan to upgrade to proper e85 compatible lines soon. Hopefully your tune goes smoothly and you actually get a chance to get a full flex fuel tune done. Good luck man!
So long as my tuner is comfortable with using it I probably will. I am hoping for a great day tomorrow man. I have 20 gallons of e85 and plan to test its content before using it.
Got them cheap *** NRG fiberglass seats! They mint doh!
Sporting a brand new timing chain along with a k tuned tensioner do to a stretched chain.
Supertech dual valve springs. I first thought they were 82lb but I am thinking they are actually 87lb.
Cheap *** Treadstone turbo stud kit.....One is stuck, two came out and one broke off inside the manifold. the car hadn't been ran 20 mins total with these studs so I assume they are a soft metal and should have never been in that environment but hey Treadstone sold em as a turbo fastener kit sooo.....
An finally, he did some drivability tuning today and all went well. The exhaust had some light smoke at idle but we are going to investigate more tomorrow with a leak down and compression test. My guess is that 2 foot turbo oil drain isn't cutting it. but really I would have to cut the rear trans mount for it to be any better. I have some ideas though to fix this if that's the problem.
He finally got to throw a little boost at it and said the engine acts like its really healthy and was very accepting of boost. At 7psi on 93 octane it made just over 300whp. Anything more and it was leaning out when vtec engaged. I had a -6 fitting that I had bent a little so we thought that was the issue. Replaced it and it didn't help. Done a lil investigating and figured out that my fuel pump wasn't doing so great. I bought it used from a member on here a lil over a year ago. the fuel line on it was hard as a rock so I'm not sure what he ran through it but I am pretty sure it toasted it. I had been wondering why fuel pressure would instantly drop when I turn the pump off so now that makes sense. So we ordered a brand new Walbro 450, supposed to be there first thing in the morning.
He sent me this graph, and even though its not really relevant to what we are aiming for, I guess Ill post it anyways lol
So a quick update. I will post pics and videos tomorrow but dyno session went well. Made 477whp on e85 and 430 on pump. its running good but I am going back to do a retune for e85 only. I don't really like the kpro flexfuel setup after seeing how it works.
What psi/torque etc... My tuner left my car at 510whp and 385WTQ @25 psi on a mustang dyno with the same turbo on E85. Dyno plots don't do the TR3030R justice, you will love the instant power.
I am not sure on the torque. It was mid 3xx ft lb but I have a picture of the dyno for pump and e85. I cant upload it at work though. I ended at 17psi on the e85 tune when I made 477whp. It was super responsive in numbers for ever pound of boost we added but anything after 17psi was running out of breath. we went for 500whp and got to 20psi but that only netted 490whp. at that point we were only making around 8whp per psi so we decided to back it down to 17psi and call it a day. It was on a dynojet which surprised me because I have been told a mustang reads lower numbers that dyno jet so I really thought I would clear 500whp but honestly I am so happy with it.
You are right the power is absolutely instant. Honestly 4th gear spins at the top on highway tread tires. My power starts coming in somewhere around 3600 to 3800 rpms and holds strong all the way to red line.
The reason I am going to run e85 only is we got the 93 tune dialed in perfect, then drained the tank and did the e85. The way kpro is setup when running the flexfuel sensor is fuel and ignition changes in % increments according to the ethanol content. We got the e85 to dial in good but had to alter the 93 tables just a little to get it run good on e85. So when that was done we drained the tank once again and put 93 back in to make sure it was still good with 93. I couldn't get about a gallon of e85 out because I have the walbro 450 sock instead of a 255 which I should buy, and it doesn't reach the bottom of the tank. because of this my ethanol content was 30 percent with a full tank of 93 octane. We did a few pulls like this knowing it wasn't back down to 10% like regular 93 pump gas but it was on point and didn't need a single touch up. When I got home I ran about a tank of fuel through it and filled back up. This brought me back down to around 10% (I will verify tonight.) and unfortunately made the tune go a little rich. Yesterday I took a friend for a ride, at operating temp I noticed my idle was around 13.5 afr and fluctuating up and down no higher than 14.1 I watched it as I went into boost and it went way rich in the high 10s and broke up around 7k rpms so I let out and took it straight home. I told him what it did, sent a couple pics of the readings and told him I was going to drain the tank, do e85 from the same batch I tuned with and reinsure that it is still good (which it should be). He said to do that but check the ethanol content on the 93 before I drain it so he can know. I told him that I want to set up for e85 only and forget about the flex fuel setup. He is gonna help me do a 3 port boost controller in a couple weeks on a Saturday and said he would switch me over to e85 only, when we set that up.
So now I am looking into boost controllers and boost by gear so any input on experience with either and good controllers to use is appreciated. He already said he doesn't like a 4 port setup.
My car idles at 13 to 1 and low 11's in boost on straight E85. That is where it idles best. Dont get too caught up on a perfect 14.7 to 1 idle. I would leave the flex tune but tune for E85. I say this cause I have found that E85 can vary from 78-90% Ethanol content. I am buying a 5 gallon drum of E98 so that I can get to 85% content at a minimum. Luckily E85 has a wider tuning window than pump gas.
I should have clarified. when the idle was at 13.5~ that was on the 93 pump gas and it seemed like the idle was falling down around 500rpm because of it. I wasn't super concerned with this until it broke up under boost. That's when I figured out it was getting way to rich in boost. I'm going to do a log for him but right now we are assuming its because the base fueling was richened a lil for the e85. I may just talk to him about running the sensor like you said for safety sake. I like the idea of that but not the idea of using that system to be able to run 93 or e85. Maybe what you are telling me is what Hondata had in mind when they did the flexfuel capability. We tested my e85 right before we used it and it was at 80% ethanol. I am planning to buy my own tester and test every time I buy it. I'm up to four devoted 5 gallon fuel cans now lol. Good thing too because the e85 pump is an hour from my house.
I should have clarified. when the idle was at 13.5~ that was on the 93 pump gas and it seemed like the idle was falling down around 500rpm because of it. I wasn't super concerned with this until it broke up under boost. That's when I figured out it was getting way to rich in boost. I'm going to do a log for him but right now we are assuming its because the base fueling was richened a lil for the e85. I may just talk to him about running the sensor like you said for safety sake. I like the idea of that but not the idea of using that system to be able to run 93 or e85. Maybe what you are telling me is what Hondata had in mind when they did the flexfuel capability. We tested my e85 right before we used it and it was at 80% ethanol. I am planning to buy my own tester and test every time I buy it. I'm up to four devoted 5 gallon fuel cans now lol. Good thing too because the e85 pump is an hour from my house.
Check out the Innovate E85 content gauge. I just bought one, I can now have live continuous monitoring of Ethanol content. Here is something that I started doing. I fill my car from my race gas jug. I put a 7 micron fuel lab filter on the end of my race gas jug so i am filtering the E85 before it goes in the car. Good luck to you Sir. Good luck with all the fan boys...."Oh my god a K-swap with a turbo!"
Check out the Innovate E85 content gauge. I just bought one, I can now have live continuous monitoring of Ethanol content. Here is something that I started doing. I fill my car from my race gas jug. I put a 7 micron fuel lab filter on the end of my race gas jug so i am filtering the E85 before it goes in the car. Good luck to you Sir. Good luck with all the fan boys...."Oh my god a K-swap with a turbo!"
Thanks for the advice man. Does that innovate sensor link into the fuel line or does the flex fuel sensor send a signal to it? I am all about some gauges lol. Thanks for the advice on the filter as well. And yeah I have had quite a few people go stir crazy about the setup already lol.
Update: Last night I switched to e85 and the idle was perfect along with part throttle and full throttle. I drove out to a local town and hung around for a while. Left and made a couple good pulls, came back and parked for a while. When I started the car back up about an hour later my fuel went lean on idle like stupid lean 17+ afr. I thought it was weird and shut it down. Primed the system again and started it back, still lean. Did it a third time and bam it was back to normal. This made me the think the E senson wasn't functioning so I hooked my laptop up and it was showing the same ethanol content in kmanager. I drove off watching my AFR and it was all correct. I finally did a pull and it was perfect around 11.2~11.4 afr. Then a second pull later I got a CEL. pulled over and pulled up kmanager to find the CEL was for Ethanol content sensor reading error. The car still ran smooth and the AFR was all correct. My ethanol content was still accurate with what I had when I filled up. I would like to add that all my sensors connections are soldered in and covered appropriately with shrink wrap.
After reading some about people having trouble out of these flex fuel sensors I am having my worries about it. If I were on a complete e85 tune and the sensor was there to make small corrections according to the ethanol content (as in 15 percent variances) I would feel more comfortable relying on the sensor but right now its a 93 tune that converts to e85 with the sensors reading. The last thing I want is for the sensor to go on the fritz in a pull, lean out, and burn out a piston or worse. To top that all off this things a beast now so monitoring the AFR all the time in a pull isn't really a safe option.
My tuner has already said he would set my tune up for only e85 when we run a 3 port boost controller so that's no issue but I probably won't be running the car much until then.
Thanks for the advice man. Does that innovate sensor link into the fuel line or does the flex fuel sensor send a signal to it? I am all about some gauges lol. Thanks for the advice on the filter as well. And yeah I have had quite a few people go stir crazy about the setup already lol.
The Innovate flex fuel sensor goes into the return line just like the GM sensor (the innovate sensor is just smaller). It feeds back to the gauge and EMS where applicable.
The Innovate flex fuel sensor goes into the return line just like the GM sensor (the innovate sensor is just smaller). It feeds back to the gauge and EMS where applicable.
So would I be able to control my Kpro ecu with it as well? Hondata only states compatiblilty with 3 gm sensors.
I wasn't able to upload the dyno video yet but I have a couple pictures at least. We were strapped in on the dyno making pulls and my cousin (the same one that blew the k20a2) found a penny laying heads up on the dyno. He was like dude I aint touching it, you pick it up lol. We had a blast at the shop with JT while the whole tuning process went down. I have been doing logs for JT at home and he has been doing a couple tweaks here and there to the tune to make it just as perfect as possible for my home town.
That engine bay looks way better in the picture lol. I kinda wish I had taken time out to paint the bay but the weather wasn't right for it and I damn sure done want to do the brake lines. Its funny how I will do a full build but avoid something like brake lines.
I thought I made more psi than this on the dyno. I am making 17psi and we agreed that was the end result but it seems like this chart shows 14.8 psi If that's correct then I assume I am running a little higher than 477whp but he tuned my car all the way out to 20psi.
yeah I was really happy to work with JT he really paid attention to detail and has answered every question I have had. He took the time out to show me most the changes he made as he built the tune and explained how he does it all. I was really impressed with the power but I do agree with you about the graph. It had a small drop off right past vtec when we were starting to add boost but he made changes accordingly and brought it right back up to par. I am uploading a new .kal file this evening and doing some more datalogs for him so he can monitor e85 start ups. My cold start needed just a hair more fuel but the warmer start ups (specifically when the car had been at operating temp then cooled down for a lil while) weren't correct and it was going way lean in that time frame. I did get another CEL for ethanol content sensor input and it was again during a high rpm pull with traction. I believe this to be the sensor becoming eratic in the higher rpms. I read that the reading can be shut off after an rpm of your choosing. When I told JT I had read that he said he altered it for me but it still shows the standard value of 10,000rpm. I am going to send him a screen shot and see if I can lower this value, then see if that fixes my issue.
But in short JT Grail at Freedom Motorworx has been great to me and I strongly recommend his work be it fab work, powertrain work, or tuning work!
Looks good man! Looks like the tuner setup boost to kinda creep up with rpms. Probably to save the stock motor and help traction with a more smooth power curve. Instead of have the boost hit hard and rip the tires off, or bend or break a stock rods with too much torque too early.
Looks good man! Looks like the tuner setup boost to kinda creep up with rpms. Probably to save the stock motor and help traction with a more smooth power curve. Instead of have the boost hit hard and rip the tires off, or bend or break a stock rods with too much torque too early.
At least he has the option of being able to say that he could have "too much torque, too early", when most turbocharged K-builds or K-swapped builds use a turbocharger that's just too large to start with on a designated "street/strip" setup, working on the belief that torque is a bad thing, and that only peak power matters. .
At least he has the option of being able to say that he could have "too much torque, too early", when most turbocharged K-builds or K-swapped builds use a turbocharger that's just too large to start with on a designated "street/strip" setup, working on the belief that torque is a bad thing, and that only peak power matters. .
I agree. A properly sized turbo does wonders for power delivery and actually putting power to the ground 👍
Looks good man! Looks like the tuner setup boost to kinda creep up with rpms. Probably to save the stock motor and help traction with a more smooth power curve. Instead of have the boost hit hard and rip the tires off, or bend or break a stock rods with too much torque too early.
To be honest it makes boost almost instant from most any rpm above 3500 so I do worry for the rods sake and try not to punch it before 5000ish. I do like how it sets in but boost creep was an issue, it was creeping up almost 2.5psi just on the wastegate spring. I am not sure why but my wastegate couldn't out flow the turbo. I would assume its because I am on a .63 turbine housing. Its a turbosmart hypergate 45mm. JT said if I had chosen a bigger housing like a .82 that he didn't think it would have crept up any, but I was blown away at the responsiveness of the turbo and don't regret it at all. The boost lag in between gears is almost non-existant.
Shodan, thanks for taking the time out to help me pick this turbo. I hope it last a very long time because I love the powerband it provides.
To be honest it makes boost almost instant from most any rpm above 3500 so I do worry for the rods sake and try not to punch it before 5000ish. I do like how it sets in but boost creep was an issue, it was creeping up almost 2.5psi just on the wastegate spring. I am not sure why but my wastegate couldn't out flow the turbo. I would assume its because I am on a .63 turbine housing. Its a turbosmart hypergate 45mm. JT said if I had chosen a bigger housing like a .82 that he didn't think it would have crept up any, but I was blown away at the responsiveness of the turbo and don't regret it at all. The boost lag in between gears is almost non-existant.
Shodan, thanks for taking the time out to help me pick this turbo. I hope it last a very long time because I love the powerband it provides.
My TR3030R is .82 with Tial housing and I had zero creep with the same Turbosmart 45mm hypergate wastegate as you with a 14 psi spring. My Sheepey manifold had great wastegate placement though. Nothing wrong with mild creep if you tune for it.
To be honest it makes boost almost instant from most any rpm above 3500 so I do worry for the rods sake and try not to punch it before 5000ish. I do like how it sets in but boost creep was an issue, it was creeping up almost 2.5psi just on the wastegate spring. I am not sure why but my wastegate couldn't out flow the turbo. I would assume its because I am on a .63 turbine housing. Its a turbosmart hypergate 45mm. JT said if I had chosen a bigger housing like a .82 that he didn't think it would have crept up any, but I was blown away at the responsiveness of the turbo and don't regret it at all. The boost lag in between gears is almost non-existant.
Shodan, thanks for taking the time out to help me pick this turbo. I hope it last a very long time because I love the powerband it provides.
It's been a pleasure.You won't destroy the rods going into boost "early" in the rpm band, so just drive the car normally, and have fun!
Last edited by TheShodan; 12-14-2017 at 06:36 AM.
Reason: grammar correction
12-08-2017, 12:03 PM
re: Goldiewang's K20A Swapped TR3030R "VelociRaptor" Project Build
.
