Sassafrass

The turbo kit I might be buying does not come with any fuel management, so I'm wondering whats a good way to go?

I hear an AFC isnt the greates, and I dont have the money for Hondata.

So any suggestions?

pissedoffsol

true standalone > aem > hondata > vafc hack > fmu

if you can't afford hondata, that's your option

Sohc Driver

Well...what is your budget, and how much boost are you planning to run initially?

Emanage is another good option..i heard its a great low buck fuel management setup..thats what i planned to use before....The AFC hack utilizes a 8point increment for fuel enrichment on the SAFC I and on the SAFC II it utilizes a 12point increment for fuel enrichment....good thing about the Emanage is that it uses a 16point increment for fuel enrichment..on top of that..if you invest in the optional Ignition harness which is 30 bucks...you can tune ignition timing on a 16point increment as well. Emanage is similar to the hack..but with more tuner options and a more precise tuning option over the regular AFC hack.

Emanage- $274
Ignition Harness- $30-$40
Fuel Harness- $30-$40
Boost Pressure harness-$30-$40
Boost Pressure Sensor-$90

So far the best deal i have found for a complete Emanage setup will run you around 460 bucks. You won't have to convert to OBDI or chip the ECU. Hooking up the Emanage is identical to hooking up a SAFC or VAFC into your ECU harness.

AEM EMS
-Its the best...but its also cot damn expensive!!!! Its a real standalone. Completely replaces your ECU and controls fuel and timing. Also has a lot of extra options, such as datalogging, mis-firing system, etc.

AEM EMS $1200-$1400

HONDATA s200b
-Not too expensive if your car is already OBDI....Its still considered a piggy back though, because it still uses your ECU. However..if your OBDII...you'll be paying close to $700-$900 bucks. Very popular and many good tuners know how to mess with HONDATA. HONDATA will control your fuel and timing directly through the ECU whereas the Emanage or AFC hack controls it indirectly via the ECU harness by manipulating the map voltage to the ecu, in other words..you can think of it as tricking the ECU into dumping the extra fuel. With the S200b you also have the extra options available if you wish to acquire them such as Datalogging, full throttle shifts, and launching control.

Hondata S200b $400-$500 bucks
OBDI ECU $100-$300 bucks pending what ECU you buy (P75,P72,P28,etc)
OBDII to OBDI conversion harness if you need it $75-$200 bucks
Getting the ECU socketed for hondata $50-$75 bucks...PM Phiz for deals on getting you ECU socketed and/or chipped.

Uberdata
-Definitely not expensive! Its free! Just download the program at http://www.b94cast.com/uberdata/ Then invest into an eprom burner that can be found for anywhere from $150 and up---> http://www.xtronics.com/memory/EPROM.htm or http://www.progshop.com/shop/p...shtml. Of course this requires you doing your own tuning..or maybe you can find someone around who is familiar with uberdata. But all in all, Uberdata is very similar to hondata. Many people have had great luck with making good power with Uberdata. VTC_civic, MarkC, Peter K are a few. There are plenty more.

Uberdata-FREE!!! $0.00
OBDI ECU-$100-$300 bucks pending what ECU you buy (P75,P72,P28,etc)
OBDII to OBDI conversion harness if you need it $75-$200 bucks
Getting the ECU socketed for hondata $50-$75 bucks...PM Phiz for deals on getting you ECU socketed and/or chipped.
Eprom Burner-$150-up

Emanage
-Not expensive at all...Also considered a Piggyback...or an extended version of the HACK. But the good news for the OBDII guys is that you won't have to convert to OBDI. You have way more options over the AFC as well: More precise tuning and you can control ignition timing..something the SAFC or VAFC does not do. Not as popular as the AFC hack or Hondata, due to the lack of people who know how to mess with Emanage, but I think its catching up.

Apexi AFC Hack
-Not expensive either...but for the price..why not go with Emanage??? Many people have had great success with the AFC Hack. Its popular and many tuners know how to tune it. Downside..can't control timing, and the increments aren't as precise as Emanage, Hondata, or AEM EMS...but hell..it sure beats the FMU/Missing link.

Apex'i SAFC or VAFC $300-$350

Vortech Boost dependent FMU/Missing Link
-Damn cheap...and it works!!!! What else can i say? With this setup, you are increasing fuel pressure to the injectors inorder to add the extra fuel needed..Unfortunately you can't really be precise on fuel enrichment. In order to do that, you'd have to Invest in an SAFC or VAFC. But once you do that..why not just go ahead and invest in some larger injectors and go AFC hack??

Vortech FMU $100-$175
Missing Link $50-$75

Also with all of these setups..you have to factor in the need to invest in a new fuel pump and larger injectors too....and that means more $$$$$$$





Modified by Sohc Driver at 12:25 PM 3/3/2004

Sassafrass

By far the most helpful post I have ever got!

You get

SuzukaBlueAP2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pissedoffsol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">true standalone &gt; aem &gt; hondata &gt; vafc hack &gt; fmu

if you can't afford hondata, that's your option</TD></TR></TABLE>

hondata = not standalone. it's a piggy back to a Honda ECU.

HaTcH_BmX

sohc driver.. nice post dude !! it will help some people.

BlueSi2k

good post...just make sure that if you go with the fmu option you need an INLINE pump. For everything else you can use an intank but they cant keep up with the high pressure needed for an fmu setup.

4-banging

don't forget about the Apexi Powa FC

check your local tuner and see what they suggest

Sohc Driver

thanks..its actually an old post i posted in another thread a while back...i just touched it up and added more info on this post. I hope it helps out more people!

Khoi

DaX

iTrader: (1)

I think he was listing in descending order EMS's from best to worst [in his opinion]

Sohc Driver

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DaX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think he was listing in descending order EMS's from best to worst [in his opinion]</TD></TR></TABLE>

twkdCD595

you can socket the ecu yourself also to save some money, if you have a decent soldering supplies already. your iron should be at least 10 watts for soldering and 40 for desoldering. you also need some desoldering wick, solder, and an ohm meter to properly check connections when done.

radio shack can supply you with almost everything needed or dont have (desoldering wick, solder, 1uF caps, 1k ohm resistor, dip socket, etc) but the eeprom/eprom chips if your using a rom editor find your best deal online or whatnot. (amtel 29c256 seems to be pefered unit). I think I spent like 12.xx total on all the socketing supplies, although I already had a soldering iron (most expensive part of it all).

JrCRXHF

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ScreaminTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

hondata = not standalone. it's a piggy back to a Honda ECU. </TD></TR></TABLE>

from what i have been told it is stand alone just use's the stock ecu for wires

SuzukaBlueAP2

uses the wires for what ? power ? ground ? A standalone can do that by simply plugging it into the stock harness and not having to go through the stock ECU.

ya know what I mean ?

"A Hondata system consists of additional components which are added to the standard ECU to allow the ECU to use a Hondata program"

That is a direct quote from Hondata's website.

http://hondata.com/products.html

beerbongskickass

I went with uberdata and I am very happy with my results. I actually sold my hondata so I could go with uberdata. If your tuner can tune hondata he will have no problem with uberdata. Check out the website and forum here... http://www.ecimulti.org/uberdata/

DaX

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ScreaminTeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">uses the wires for what ? power ? ground ? A standalone can do that by simply plugging it into the stock harness and not having to go through the stock ECU.

ya know what I mean ?

"A Hondata system consists of additional components which are added to the standard ECU to allow the ECU to use a Hondata program"

That is a direct quote from Hondata's website.

http://hondata.com/products.html</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hondata takes advantage of the Honda ECU already having some pre-existing circuitry. Why replace what is already there? Also, Hondata does this to allow the stock ECU to control things that aren't performance related, i.e. - the AC system.

So in fact, yes, it is a piggyback system since the stock ECU is still in the car. A quote from the Hondata site: "Hondata modifies standard Honda engine computers (ECUs), adding features and expanding the capabilities of the ECU (e.g. for forced induction)."

Another quote:

"Why should I buy a Hondata system instead of a replacement standalone computer?

Nothing starts and idles a Honda engine as well as Honda ECU, nor runs as smoothly. End of story."

This is excellent if you are looking for an aftermarket EMS for a daily driver. There is no standalone unit that can make a Honda start up and idle nearly as good as the stock ECU. If you are looking to build a drag car, sure, then throw MoTeC on there and call it a day.

There is no shame in calling Hondata a piggyback ECU, because that's exactly what it is. Just because someone has a full stand-alone EMS doesn't make their setup better than mine.

Now, as far as the new K-series ECU's go [and correct me if I'm wrong here], it DOES replace the entire stock ECU, therefore making it a true stand-alone unit.