feed/return lines
09-06-2012, 10:57 AM
#1
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
feed/return lines
I have a honda civic ek coupe with a ls swap. i already have the turbo on there, my next step is the oil lines... does anyone know what length and what fittings i will need? (90 degree, straight??)
09-06-2012, 11:06 AM
#2
Re: feed/return lines
LOL my bad.
On my feed. I had a oil sandwiche adapter, 1/8NPT to -3 AN adapter, 36" -3 line. to turbo. Youll prob want a 90* on the turbo, depending on where you route the oil line.
On return I used two 45* fittings. One the angle out of the turbo and another on the oil pan bung. Length depends on turbo placement. But 12" is enough for most people.
On my feed. I had a oil sandwiche adapter, 1/8NPT to -3 AN adapter, 36" -3 line. to turbo. Youll prob want a 90* on the turbo, depending on where you route the oil line.
On return I used two 45* fittings. One the angle out of the turbo and another on the oil pan bung. Length depends on turbo placement. But 12" is enough for most people.
Last edited by Muckman; 09-06-2012 at 11:44 AM.
09-06-2012, 01:59 PM
#4
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: feed/return lines
Just answered this earlier today. Next time please search before making a thread.
I wouldn't recommend an electric cutout for your setup, but that's just me. The reason is you don't want to make huge power and you're essentially adding a system that isn't 100% necessary. A well built 3" exhaust will not only flow great, but can be relatively quiet too (considering a turbo provides a good amount of muffling by itself).
The head studs are pretty easy to install, but like someone mentioned this depends on how mechanically inclined you are. You will need to take the head off the block in order to install them. Therefore the timing belt, water pump, exhaust manifold, power steering pump, upper radiator hose, etc will all need to come off. If this isn't your daily I'd say get some buddies over and make it a weekend project! It might sound like a lot of work but it's pretty straight forward, especially if you can find a good tutorial to follow online or a Honda service manual for the car.
As far as the feed/drain lines you posted, yes that is everything you need. However I wouldn't recommend buying that right away. Reason is that depending on your exhaust manifold and turbo combination, you may need to run a different fitting due to the angle you need to make a smooth oil drain configuration. I labeled the pic so my next couple paragraphs will make more sense (see pic)
1. -10AN (Army Navy) steel fitting
2. 45 degree NPT (National Pipe Thread) to -10AN fitting (forgot the size of the NPT side, I want to say it's 1/2" NPT though). This is a steel fitting.
3. -3AN turbo feed line
4. Flange gasket
5. Earls Swivel-Seat 45 degree -10AN aluminum fitting
6. Earls Swivel-Seat straight -10AN aluminum fitting
7. 1/8" BPST (male) to 1/8" NPT (female) fitting. Some people say you don't need this because "a 1/8" NPT fitting will fit in the back of the block" but this is NOT true. BPST threads and NPT threads are slightly different and you will get spiral leakage. See following pic to see what I mean:
8. 1/8" NPT to -3AN straight steel fitting
9. Brass "T" fitting* (see caveat at end of post)
10. 1/8" NPT to -3AN 90 degree brass fitting
11. 1/8" NPT to 1/4" NPT adapter
12. Aluminum drain adapter flange
13. -10AN braided stainless hose
Here's a quick drawing I made showing what goes where:
For example when I did my first build, I bought this exact kit. But it turned out I couldn't use the 45 degree swivel -10AN fitting (#5) or the 45 degree NPT to -10 fitting (#2). I wound up needing a brass fitting to go into the adapter flange (#12) and a 60 degree fitting to make a smooth drain line. So IMO mock up the turbo and manifold first and see what will fit best so you don't have to buy things twice.
*CAVEAT* Many people (including myself) are kind of hesitant to run this brass fitting on the back of our blocks. Yes it's been done many times without failure, but I have seen these brass fittings crack and fail due to engine vibrations. 4cyl engines naturally vibrate more than their the V6, V8, I6, etc counterparts. Also, I needed ports for my oil pressure and oil temp gauge so I devised a "distribution block" for oil. It is mounted remotely and therefore is resistant to breaking off fittings due to engine vibrations. Here's my setup:
And how it looks in real life:
The 90 degree 1/8" NPT to -3AN 90 degree fitting was replaced with a steel one
The head studs are pretty easy to install, but like someone mentioned this depends on how mechanically inclined you are. You will need to take the head off the block in order to install them. Therefore the timing belt, water pump, exhaust manifold, power steering pump, upper radiator hose, etc will all need to come off. If this isn't your daily I'd say get some buddies over and make it a weekend project! It might sound like a lot of work but it's pretty straight forward, especially if you can find a good tutorial to follow online or a Honda service manual for the car.
As far as the feed/drain lines you posted, yes that is everything you need. However I wouldn't recommend buying that right away. Reason is that depending on your exhaust manifold and turbo combination, you may need to run a different fitting due to the angle you need to make a smooth oil drain configuration. I labeled the pic so my next couple paragraphs will make more sense (see pic)
1. -10AN (Army Navy) steel fitting
2. 45 degree NPT (National Pipe Thread) to -10AN fitting (forgot the size of the NPT side, I want to say it's 1/2" NPT though). This is a steel fitting.
3. -3AN turbo feed line
4. Flange gasket
5. Earls Swivel-Seat 45 degree -10AN aluminum fitting
6. Earls Swivel-Seat straight -10AN aluminum fitting
7. 1/8" BPST (male) to 1/8" NPT (female) fitting. Some people say you don't need this because "a 1/8" NPT fitting will fit in the back of the block" but this is NOT true. BPST threads and NPT threads are slightly different and you will get spiral leakage. See following pic to see what I mean:
8. 1/8" NPT to -3AN straight steel fitting
9. Brass "T" fitting* (see caveat at end of post)
10. 1/8" NPT to -3AN 90 degree brass fitting
11. 1/8" NPT to 1/4" NPT adapter
12. Aluminum drain adapter flange
13. -10AN braided stainless hose
Here's a quick drawing I made showing what goes where:
For example when I did my first build, I bought this exact kit. But it turned out I couldn't use the 45 degree swivel -10AN fitting (#5) or the 45 degree NPT to -10 fitting (#2). I wound up needing a brass fitting to go into the adapter flange (#12) and a 60 degree fitting to make a smooth drain line. So IMO mock up the turbo and manifold first and see what will fit best so you don't have to buy things twice.
*CAVEAT* Many people (including myself) are kind of hesitant to run this brass fitting on the back of our blocks. Yes it's been done many times without failure, but I have seen these brass fittings crack and fail due to engine vibrations. 4cyl engines naturally vibrate more than their the V6, V8, I6, etc counterparts. Also, I needed ports for my oil pressure and oil temp gauge so I devised a "distribution block" for oil. It is mounted remotely and therefore is resistant to breaking off fittings due to engine vibrations. Here's my setup:
And how it looks in real life:
The 90 degree 1/8" NPT to -3AN 90 degree fitting was replaced with a steel one
09-06-2012, 03:11 PM
#5
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Jax, FL
Posts: 237
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: feed/return lines
Maybe you guys know something I don't about his setup, but I didn't see any mention of the type of turbo he is running to know if you he needs an oil restrictor.
09-06-2012, 03:20 PM
#6
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: feed/return lines
A restrictor is a very small piece of the feed/return system. He can monitor his oil pressure and see what his cold start pressure is and see if that is within spec of the turbo. He can get this spec from the manufacturer.
When I did my build, I read my oil pressure on cold start and contacted an engineer at Borg Warner and was told my pressure was too high so I run a restrictor.
When I did my build, I read my oil pressure on cold start and contacted an engineer at Borg Warner and was told my pressure was too high so I run a restrictor.
09-06-2012, 04:09 PM
#7
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: feed/return lines
The turbo is evo III ported 16G...
Oil requirements depend on the turbo's bearing system type. Garrett has two types of bearing systems; traditional journal bearing; and ball bearing. The journal bearing system in a turbo functions very similarly to the rod or crank bearings in an engine. These bearings require enough oil pressure to keep the components separated by a hydrodynamic film. If the oil pressure is too low, the metal components will come in contact causing premature wear and ultimately failure. If the oil pressure is too high, leakage may occur from the turbocharger seals. With that as background, an oil restrictor is generally not needed for a journal-bearing turbocharger except for those applications with oil-pressure-induced seal leakage.
Oil requirements depend on the turbo's bearing system type. Garrett has two types of bearing systems; traditional journal bearing; and ball bearing. The journal bearing system in a turbo functions very similarly to the rod or crank bearings in an engine. These bearings require enough oil pressure to keep the components separated by a hydrodynamic film. If the oil pressure is too low, the metal components will come in contact causing premature wear and ultimately failure. If the oil pressure is too high, leakage may occur from the turbocharger seals. With that as background, an oil restrictor is generally not needed for a journal-bearing turbocharger except for those applications with oil-pressure-induced seal leakage.
Trending Topics
09-06-2012, 04:57 PM
#9
Honda-Tech Member
Re: feed/return lines
There really is no way to know what length of line you will need until you actually mock up the turbo (semi bolt the manifold & turbo up to the block) & check for the length & best angle fittings to get... If your turbo sits on the passenger side vs the driver side, if you get a top mount manifold, there are variables to consider....
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post